Politikk, religion og samfunn Hva har gått galt i Norge?

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  • Kjendis

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    Som sagt, det er nok mest tilpasset amerikanske forhold, hvis man skal bedømme det ut fra hvilke spørsmål som stilles. Jeg synes likevel det er en nyttig modell å skille mellom hva man forsøker å gjøre (venstre-høyre) og hvilke virkemidler man er villig til å bruke (autoritær-liberal), selv om det så definitivt har blitt postet før også.
    I Norge er også alt flyttet mot venstre i det meste av politiske saker untatt blandingsøkonomi.
    Erna er sosialdemokrat og lite skiller høyre og Ap. Grensa mellom konservativ og sosialdemokrati går fortsatt i Høyre, men frp er eneste konservative liberale parti sammen med Konservativt.
    Krf er sosialister og lite er igjenn av Kåre Kristiansens politikk. En del skyldes sekulariseringen av samfunnet.

    Landet ligger åpent for starten av den muslimske trosbekjennelsen:
    Det fins ingen Gud...untatt....bla bla.
    Enn så lenge kan folk tro på, mene og stemme på hva de vil. Det er siste rest av konservativ kristne verdier.
     

    Hønndjevelen

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    Landet ligger åpent for starten av den muslimske trosbekjennelsen:
    Det fins ingen Gud...untatt....bla bla.
    Enn så lenge kan folk tro på, mene og stemme på hva de vil. Det er siste rest av konservativ kristne verdier.
    Jeg regner med at det er denne trosbekjennelsen du viser til, som btw er noen tusen år eldre:
    2. Mosebok 20. 3-6
    Du skal ikke ha andre guder enn meg.....
    For jeg er en nidkjær Gud som hjemsøker fedrenes skyld på barna i tredje og fjerde ledd...

    Hyggelig gammal nisse å tilbe det tenker jeg,
     

    Kjendis

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    Jeg regner med at det er denne trosbekjennelsen du viser til, som btw er noen tusen år eldre:
    2. Mosebok 20. 3-6
    Du skal ikke ha andre guder enn meg.....
    For jeg er en nidkjær Gud som hjemsøker fedrenes skyld på barna i tredje og fjerde ledd...

    Hyggelig gammal nisse å tilbe det tenker jeg,
    Ja. Mennesket hadde i utgangspunktet bare en regel. Å ikke spise av kunnskapens tre. Kun en regel.
    -Men nei. En snakkende "Serpent" fikk mennesket til å spise på grunn av forvrengning og løgn. "Har Gud virkelig sagt??".......at han fins osv.

    Tilliten er brutt. Hvis barna dine (om du har barn) går bak ryggen din, vil språket ditt endres når tilliten er brutt.
    De 10 bud er den gamle pakt. Hugget inn i stein av Gud selv. Men vi avviser (Bare eventyr og tull)
     

    Hønndjevelen

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    Ja. Mennesket hadde i utgangspunktet bare en regel. Å ikke spise av kunnskapens tre. Kun en regel.
    -Men nei. En snakkende "Serpent" fikk mennesket til å spise på grunn av forvrengning og løgn. "Har Gud virkelig sagt??".......at han fins osv.
    JaJa på meg virker det ikke som om du har forspist deg av Kunnskapens tre.
     

    Asbjørn

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    JaJa på meg virker det ikke som om du har forspist deg av Kunnskapens tre.
    Igjen, hele den historien er en forvrengning av kultusen for Asherah, Jahves kvinnelige motstykke blant kanaanittene. Hun var assosiert med hager, trær og slanger i symbolikken. Noen hadde tydeligvis veldig behov for å demonisere fru gud.

    1715197084462.png

     
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    Tweedjakke

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    I Norge er også alt flyttet mot venstre i det meste av politiske saker untatt blandingsøkonomi.
    På sett og vis er dette eit argument for det skiljet mellom høgre/venstre og konservativ/liberal som Asbjørn argumenterte for.

    Eg trur dei fleste, også på høgresida, vil meina at Noreg har flytta seg økonomisk og strukturelt tydeleg til høgre dei siste, tja, 20-30 åra. Litt krangling om skattesatsar og slikt, rett nok.

    Men ja, kulturelt er kristendomen borte som statsreligion, og liberalisert på nesten alle område. Denne liberaliseringa har ikkje ein tydeleg partikulør, sjølv om både høgresida, venstresida og ytre venstre har skriv ho inn i si historie.
     

    Kjendis

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    Igjen, hele den historien er en forvrengning av kultusen for Asherah, Jahves kvinnelige motstykke blant kanaanittene. Hun var assosiert med hager, trær og slanger i symbolikken. Noen hadde tydeligvis veldig behov for å demonisere fru gud.

    Vis vedlegget 1022323

    Litterærkritisk analyse er ikke fremmed. Bl.a trekilde teorien. Er kjent stoff det der. Repetisjon av grunnfaget.
     
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    Det er liberalteologi du henviser til. Bl.a trekilde teorien. Er kjent stoff det der.
    En pratende slange og et tre med epler du ikke får lov til å spise. En slem jente og en lettlurt gutt.
    Og nå skal alle mennesker som lever ta straffen for det hele, fordi "vi" ikke hørte på den hevngjerrige gnomen. Til tross for at han tillot noen å nagle sønnen fast i en stokk for at han skulle sone for "våre" synder. Men åpenbart hjalp det lite.

    Saklig historie.
     

    Kjendis

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    På sett og vis er dette eit argument for det skiljet mellom høgre/venstre og konservativ/liberal som Asbjørn argumenterte for.

    Eg trur dei fleste, også på høgresida, vil meina at Noreg har flytta seg økonomisk og strukturelt tydeleg til høgre dei siste, tja, 20-30 åra. Litt krangling om skattesatsar og slikt, rett nok.

    Men ja, kulturelt er kristendomen borte som statsreligion, og liberalisert på nesten alle område. Denne liberaliseringa har ikkje ein tydeleg partikulør, sjølv om både høgresida, venstresida og ytre venstre har skriv ho inn i si historie.
    Jo, du tar feil, hvis du ser bort fra økonomiskstrukturell politikk. Atheisme, sekularisme og matrialisme er helt esensielle aspekter i den russiske revolusjonen. Religionskritikken i vesten har slående likhetstrekk. Oppløsning av tokjønnsmodellen og miljøbevegelsen og woke er ny revolusjonære trekk, en ny type klasselamp/motsetning om du vil hvor hvite konservative hetro menn blir sett ned på.
     

    Kjendis

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    En pratende slange og et tre med epler du ikke får lov til å spise. En slem jente og en lettlurt gutt.
    Og nå skal alle mennesker som lever ta straffen for det hele, fordi "vi" ikke hørte på den hevngjerrige gnomen. Til tross for at han tillot noen å nagle sønnen fast i en stokk for at han skulle sone for "våre" synder. Men åpenbart hjalp det lite.

    Saklig historie.
    Pass språket ditt mens du spotter kjærligheten (Jesus). Du og jeg er i nøyaktig samme båt.
    Eneste som skiller er at jeg har sagt ja til kjærligheten. Utenom det skiller nada.
     
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    Tweedjakke

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    Jo, du tar feil, hvis du ser bort fra økonomiskstrukturell politikk. Atheisme, sekularisme og matrialisme er helt esensielle aspekter i den russiske revolusjonen. Religionskritikken i vesten har slående likhetstrekk. Oppløsning av tokjønnsmodellen og miljøbevegelsen og woke er ny revolusjonære trekk, en ny type klasselamp/motsetning
    Ja, som tydeleg på ei slags venstreside ser eg jo på alt dette som viktige kampar der folk organiserer seg mot urimeleg undertrykking, patriarkatet og alle skadelege bieffektar av kapitalismen. Greitt nok. Venstresida er (med kuriøse unnatak) veldig woke.

    Men det ville vore ganske snevert å ikkje sjå at også folk godt på høgresida, og i statsberande sosialdemokrati, også har kjempa for desse sakene, ofte med eit heilt anna utgangspunkt. Det vert ikkje særleg mykje sosialisme av at Kyrkja (den norske), Equinor og DnB prideparaden, men det vert sannsynlegvis meir triveleg å vera homo.

    Den franske revolusjonen var også ateistisk.
     

    Hønndjevelen

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    Tilbake til pontet. Pointet er at du går i strupen på demokrati og trosfrihet. Det er spennende.
    Gjør jeg?
    En artig måte å lese meg på.
    For meg må folk tro på den overtroen de finner best, men du ytrer ikke særlig trosfrihet overfor fx muslimer
     

    Kjendis

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    Gjør jeg?
    En artig måte å lese meg på.
    For meg må folk tro på den overtroen de finner best, men du ytrer ikke særlig trosfrihet overfor fx muslimer
    Fx Muslimer? Hva mener du med det? Det republikanske partiet i USA drives fram av frykt for at Islam får for stor juridisk politisk innflytelse etter nine eleven.
    Islam har mange likhetstrekk med sosialisme. Derfor kan de to politisk religiøse retningene sammarbeide.
     
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    Æresmedlem
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    Pass språket ditt mens du spotter kjærligheten (Jesus). Du og jeg er i nøyaktig samme båt.
    Eneste som skiller er at jeg har sagt ja til kjærligheten. Utenom det skiller nada.
    Jeg opplever kjærligheten hver eneste dag, jeg. Selv om jeg ikke tror på eventyr.

    Noe i oss søker trygghet
    noe i oss vil bli fri.
    Vi vil holde veldig fast,
    og vi vil dra forbi.
    Vi kan lete etter sjelen.
    Vi kan digge noe flott.
    Eg e ute eller inne
    for å ha det godt!

    Det e
    mang slags kjærlighet. Det e
    mang slags kjærlighet. Kjære -
    mang slags kjærlighet
    e godt for meg og deg.

    (Jan Eggum)
     

    Panama Red

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    Pass språket ditt mens du spotter kjærligheten (Jesus). Du og jeg er i nøyaktig samme båt.
    Eneste som skiller er at jeg har sagt ja til kjærligheten. Utenom det skiller nada.
    "Pass språket ditt mens du spotter kjærligheten (Jesus)"
    Du er i nøyaktig samme båt som islamistene når du forlanger at andre skal passe språket sitt, og ikke spotte din imaginære venn.

    "Islam har mange likhetstrekk med sosialisme"
    Hvor tar du all bs'en din fra? Du burde vite så pass at isalm, og kristendommen for den del, har mye til felles med facisme og ingentig felles med sosialisme. Du har kanskje fått med deg at sosialismen avskriver guder?.

    Du passer imo bedre sammen med isalmister og indremisjonen ,som skriker opp om gudløshet og blasfemi, enn med den sekulære og mentalt oppegående majoriteten i samfunnet.

    Ha en god himmelsprett, eller hva f#¤n dere kaller det for
     

    lars_erik

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    Av en eller annen grunn ser jeg Kjendis' innlegg, siden det er viktig å få en bredde òg å vite hva konservative kristne legger til grunn for sin virkelighetsoppfatning. I folkeopplysningens navn. Jeg ser til og med innlegg fra Høyre-folk. Da er man sannelig tolerant.
     
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    Appro H folk og galt tråden, her har det gått skikkelig galt, det må da være mulig å komme opp med noe nytt i løpet av 20 år...



    Skjermbilde 2024-05-09 kl. 12.55.10.png
     
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    Sluket

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    Av en eller annen grunn ser jeg Kjendis' innlegg, siden det er viktig å få en bredde òg å vite hva konservative kristne legger til grunn for sin virkelighetsoppfatning. I folkeopplysningens navn. Jeg ser til og med innlegg fra Høyre-folk. Da er man sannelig tolerant.

    Jo, du fremstår for meg som ekstremt tolerant 😆 😆 😆
     

    Kjendis

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    "Pass språket ditt mens du spotter kjærligheten (Jesus)"
    Du er i nøyaktig samme båt som islamistene når du forlanger at andre skal passe språket sitt, og ikke spotte din imaginære venn.

    "Islam har mange likhetstrekk med sosialisme"
    Hvor tar du all bs'en din fra? Du burde vite så pass at isalm, og kristendommen for den del, har mye til felles med facisme og ingentig felles med sosialisme. Du har kanskje fått med deg at sosialismen avskriver guder?.

    Du passer imo bedre sammen med isalmister og indremisjonen ,som skriker opp om gudløshet og blasfemi, enn med den sekulære og mentalt oppegående majoriteten i samfunnet.

    Ha en god himmelsprett, eller hva f#¤n dere kaller det for
    Pass språket ditt er advarsel om å bli raportert. Les Hi-fi sentralens reglement. Det var det jeg mente.

    At du syns det er mot enhver fornuft å følge noen regler som ble lansert av en av de best dokumenterte personer fra antikken, syns jeg virker ufornuftig. Den oppegående majoriteten med fornuftige må forholde seg til antikk filosofi etikk og "imaginære venner" (fornuften). Eks: Sokrates, Platon og Aristoteles, som er de mest kjente i tillegg til Jesus.
     

    Panama Red

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    Pass språket ditt er advarsel om å bli raportert. Les Hi-fi sentralens reglement. Det var det jeg mente.

    At du syns det er mot enhver fornuft å følge noen regler som ble lansert av en av de best dokumenterte personer fra antikken, syns jeg virker ufornuftig. Den oppegående majoriteten med fornuftige må forholde seg til antikk filosofi etikk og "imaginære venner" (fornuften). Eks: Sokrates, Platon og Aristoteles, som er de mest kjente i tillegg til Jesus.
     

    Kjendis

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    "Islam har mange likhetstrekk med sosialisme"
    Hvor tar du all bs'en din fra? Du burde vite så pass at isalm, og kristendommen for den del, har mye til felles med facisme og ingentig felles med sosialisme. Du har kanskje fått med deg at sosialismen avskriver guder?.
    Hva gjorde Stalin med prestene? Wiki:
    " The main target of the anti-religious campaign in the 1920s and 1930s was the Russian Orthodox Church, which had the largest number of faithful. Nearly all of its clergy, and many of its believers, were shot or sent to labour camps. Theological schools were closed, and church publications were prohibited.[1] More than 85,000 Orthodox priests were shot in 1937 alone.[2] Only a twelfth of the Russian Orthodox Church's priests were left functioning in their parishes by 1941.[3] "

    Wiki om Iran og hvordan ikke muslimer behandles:
    However, the adherents of religions not specifically protected under the Constitution do not enjoy freedom of activity, nor do Muslims who convert to another religion. Constitutional protections of freedom of belief are tempered by the fact that the death penalty has been imposed on the basis of vague charges, such as “‘attempts against the security of the state,’ ‘outrage against high-ranking officials,’ and ‘insults against the memory of Imam Khomeini and against the Supreme Leader of the Islamic Republic,’” and has been imposed on the basis of crimes like "drug smuggling" that religious (and political) dissidents have no plausible connection with.[8] While there is no specific law against apostasy, courts can hand down the death penalty for apostasy to ex-Muslims, and have done so in previous years, based on their interpretation of Sharia’a law and fatwas (legal opinions or decrees issued by Islamic religious leaders).[8] There are laws against blasphemy and the punishment is death.[14][15]
     

    Hardingfele

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    Det bør vel riktignok sies at Jesus var temmelig innstilt på prinsipper vi ville kalt sosialistiske/sosialdemokratiske.

    Man kan google og finne, men jeg har funnet, og vår høyst bibellærde ignorant kan ta til seg hva han ikke fikk med seg i "Jesus was a Socialist" timene.


    In America (and in all capitalist countries) people assume their wealth is their own. It's a bedrock belief, we are taught to admire those who build wealth, attain impressive houses, cars, clothes, and retire early to Florida. We are told by the Christian Republican right wing & conservative left that the wealthy worked hard for their money and deserve to reap the benefits. But the Bible tells us differently.

    Luke 12 displays a Jesus delivering parables of a successful businessman. He is so successful that he cannot find enough room for all of his harvest. So the wealthy business man undertakes a massive building project to protect his wealth and plan an early retirement. The "Christian" culture of America would say this man is a success, for the man did what we are told to do all the time: expand, invest, and use for personal benefit. So why does Jesus in his parable consider this an antithesis to success? He instead says God considers this man a "fool" BECAUSE he only used his wealth for his "own" benefit. Jesus goes on to admonish the selfishness and lack of communalism of the businessman. In ultimate renunciation of the man, Jesus advocates the man should have redistributed his wealth to the poor!

    There are countless Biblical stories that match the evil "socialist" economic ethic, such as the story of Zacchaeus the Tax Collector, which, so illuminating, is found in Luke 19:1-10: Zacchaeus gives half of his wealth and pays back four times what he has defrauded. He has put his own wealth and honor in jeopardy in order to benefit his neighbors and his community. Additionally, Luke 16 contains the story of Lazarus and the rich man. The rich man eats wonderful food and dresses in the finest clothes. Lazarus sits outside of his gates and waits for the scraps from his table. Both men die. The rich man lands in torment and Lazarus at Abraham's side. The rich man's sin, was ignoring the suffering of the poor. He thought of his wealth as his own and the poverty and suffering of others as having no connection to him. This view of the world lands him in torment. How can anyone read these things and then claim Jesus would back a system that propagates a personal/private view of wealth? Both characters in these stories are punished because they only thought of themselves and their wealth!

    "Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the Kingdom of God" - Luke 6:20-26

    "Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that will come upon you. Your wealth will rot, and moths will eat your clothes. For your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You who have hoarded wealth in the last days!" - James 5:1-3

    "How terrible for you who are rich now, for you have had your easy life and will get no more..." - Luke 6:24

    "But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you. You will be repaid at the resurrection of the just." - Luke 14:13-14

    If someone takes away your coat, let him have your shirt as well...

    "In the temple courts [Jesus] found men selling cattle, sheep and doves and other sitting at tables exchanging money. So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables." - John 2:14-15. This story which shows Jesus' rage against what is essentially corporate Greed, merging money with state & theological power, is also repeated in Matthew 21:12 (summed here essentially): Jesus walks into the temple courtyard and sees how merchants there change money, they have built their business up around what is supposed to be God's temple. Jesus is horrified by the idea that God's home could be profaned with money and the desire to be wealthy, he loses it, making a whip and begins turning over the tables the merchants are trading upon, he drives out the cattle being sold and screams a ton of insults at the people in the courtyard. Jesus was filled with righteous indignation at the idea of Church being involved with business, he was horrified that it could be used as a network for making money.

    Why do Republicans not feel even a twinge of this divine rage? Why do they say the liberal idea of keeping church separate from state or economics is demonic, when clearly Jesus himself was of the idea?!?!? How do we rectify this with the Republican Christian revulsion to our discussion of taking "in God we trust" off of our money?

    "Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; a man's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions." - Luke 12-15.

    "Truly, I say unto you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven." - Matthew 19:23

    "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's" - Matthew 22:21. Republicans would have us believe that paying taxes is a horrific idea, they don't want to pay into social benefits because it violates their "freedom", but what of their God's commandment to pay taxes?!?!

    "Give to everyone who begs from you..." - Luke 6:30

    "And I'll say to myself, 'You have plenty of good things laid up for many years. Take life easy; eat, drink and be merry.' But God said to him, 'You fool! This very night your life will be demanded from you. Then who will get what you have prepared for yourself?' This is how it will be with anyone who stores up things for himself but is not rich toward God." - Luke 12:19-21

    "So in everything, do to others as you would have them do to you" - Matthew 7:12 or "Love your neighbor as yourself" - Matthew 22:39. This is what Jesus said is the sum of his law. Yet does Republican policy (or even modern Democrat policy) embody that? Does the person who assigns 18,000 Americans to die a year from lack of health care, "love his neighbor"? Does the American who back the war for oil and allowed over a million innocent Iraqis to die, "love his neighbor"? Is a society that doesn't provide free education a display of love for community? Is a society that takes money from the working class to pay for the insane bonuses of wealthy CEOS an act of love for ALL neighbors? Or only an act of love for the rich? And what is it Jesus would say about that?

    "He who oppresses the poor to increase his wealth and he who gives gifts to the rich - both come to poverty." - Proverbs 22:16

    If someone takes what is yours, do not ask for it back again...

    "For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is the root of all evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs." 1 Timothy 6:7-10

    "All the believers were together and had everything in common. They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need...." - Acts 2:44-45

    "But love your enemies, and do them good, and lend, never despairing; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be sons of the Most High: for he is kind toward the unthankful and evil." - Luke 6:35

    "Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth" - 1 Corinthians 10:24. That comment REEKS of "redistribution" that idea that Republican Christians LOATHE. If it is such an evil concept, why does the Bible say we should do it? Moreover, the Bible doesn't claim we should do it in favor of the rich, like we did with the bail-outs. On the contrary, it claims we should forgive the debt of the poor and let the rich fund it!

    Take a look at the story about debt in Luke 7:36-50: We find Jesus eating with a Pharisee, who would be an "elite", a part of the richest in society. Pharisees often threw banquets to show off their wealth, it was a status display in ancient Jerusalem that gained them honor in the eyes of their peers. The Pharisee invited Jesus, but at the party a sinner woman comes in and begins weeping at his feet, washing them. The Pharisee thinks to himself how Jesus must not be a prophet for the woman is of low class & Jesus, if he had divine powers, should have known so. Jesus understands the man's thoughts and counters them with a parable about who would love a wealthy man that forgave debt more, someone who owed 50 pence or one who owed 500. The answer is of course the one who owed 500 and then a long diatribe begins about how the more sinful or impoverished a person is, the more they love who forgives them. He is sure to point out that the pharisee in no way treated him with the same honor as the woman at his feet, because he did not understand the need of the impoverished.

    Imagine if the Republicans who pretend to be Christians REALLY acted like one and instead of authoring bailouts used the 700 billion to buy out the debts of the poor who were in foreclosure. How would that affect our society? We are now in a situation where the rich have MORE money and the working class are MORE IN DEBT, to the point where 1 out of 8 Americans is now facing homelessness! How much crime & threat of violent revolution will we be facing in another three years when we continue on this trend of bailing out rich and we reach the projected number of 50% of families facing homelessness? It stands to reason there Jesus deliberately taught us to pray: 'forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors'. Its a reiteration of the law God gave to the Jews, the law that was ignored so Jesus had to come. There's a ton of debt theme verses from the Bible, and yet the party that claims to embody Christian values say people who advocate giving bail outs to American workers & not American CEOS are "evil socialists"... So the question rises: what does Jesus advocating redistribution make him? Are the Republicans saying Jesus is a socialist? Or are they implying Jesus is Evil? You can't answer that question without revealing Republicans & conservative Democrats for what they are: liars!

    In further reassertion, take one simple glance into Matthew 19:21-24: "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also [...] Jesus answered, 'If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.' But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful; for he had great possessions. Then Jesus said to his disciples, 'I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.'"

    Clearly, those who have possessions of value then are not "perfect." They are deliberately ignoring Jesus' teachings, because they care more about their wealth than they do their Jesus. Knowing this, Republicans and conservative Democrats really have NO right to call themselves Christian.

    "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.' They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?' He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least among you, you did not do for me.'" - Matthew 25:41-45. And so we have Jesus promising to treat Republicans and conservative Democrats EXACTLY how they treated the poor. I may be an Atheist but scriptures like this make me WISH this theology was true just so I could see the day of justice.

    "He is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions, and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain" - 1 Timothy 6:4-5

    And there it is, those who think godliness leads to financial gain do not know the "truth." Why does the 700 club never mentions this verse?!?!? Whenever I turn that shitty show on I see them claim,"give to us and god will return your wealth ten fold." (There by also implying the opposite: the poor are supposedly sinners which is why they have no favor from God) What a fucking scam!!!! And these Christians fall for it CONSTANTLY, because they are too fucking lazy to read their own Bibles, it's so shameful!

    And this isn't the only such verse which absolutely buries the idea that money does NOT equate to divine favor: "When Simon saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money and said, 'Give me also this ability so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.' Peter answered: 'May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money!'" - Acts 8:18-20

    "Whoever loves money never has money enough; whoever loves wealth is never satisfied with his income. This too is meaningless." - Ecclesiastes 5:10

    And finally (at least for this essay, because there are thousands more of such stories in the Bible) we have Matthew 27:3-8, which really encapsulates Jesus' life & teachings on money. Judas had told the where abouts of Jesus to the Roman soldiers for a measly 30 silver. When the Romans condemned Christ, Judas had a fit of remorse and trying to at least do SOMETHING positive out of the terrible fiasco, so he sought out the priests and tried to give them the 30 silver. But not even the corrupt priests, who Jesus was always screaming at, would take the money because it was dirty. So Judas, out of sheer desperation, threw it on the ground and ran off to hang himself. The priests, knowing they could do nothing with the money related to their church, but knowing they had to do SOMETHING of Christ's teachings with it, bought a plot for poor foreigners to be buried at... And what is it I see in this story? That even Judas, the biggest betrayer in all of history, didn't lack the apathy to see he spilled innocent blood. Yet Christians have that apathy all the time.... The Republican American Christian feels nothing about the fact that for every 6 Americans a human being has to die to support their wealth. We are only 5% of the human population and we consume 40% of the world's resources, take for instance, how many people starve to death in Indonesia because we move our corporations there in hopes of paying slave labor so we can get cheaper prices at walmart. We live in a world where 34,000 children die EVERYDAY from starvation. Judas had the morality to kill himself for the blood money he took, American Republican Christians ask for more coin & more blood... And this is why I say that if Jesus were to come back, he'd be called a communist and assassinated again by the cheering right & conservative left...
     

    Kjendis

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    Jesus var en Maga mann

    Lignelsen om talentene
    14For det er som med en mann som var i ferd med å dra utenlands. Han kalte til seg tjenerne sine og overlot dem eiendommen sin.
    15Til en ga han fem talenter, til en annen to, til en tredje én talent - hver av dem etter som de hadde evne til. Så dro han utenlands. 16Han som hadde fått fem talenter, gikk straks bort og drev handel med dem, og tjente fem til. 17Han som hadde fått to, gjorde det samme, og tjente to til. 18Men han som hadde fått den ene talenten, gikk bort og gravde i jorden og gjemte sin herres penger. 19Etter lang tid kom så disse tjenernes herre og holdt regnskap med dem. 20Da kom han fram som hadde fått de fem talentene. Han hadde med seg fem talenter til, og sa: Herre, du ga meg fem talenter, se, jeg har tjent fem talenter til! 21Hans herre sa til ham: Vel gjort, du gode og tro tjener! Du har vært tro over lite, jeg vil sette deg over meget. Gå inn til din herres glede! 22Så kom han fram som hadde fått de to talentene, og sa: Herre, du ga meg to talenter, se, jeg har tjent to talenter til! 23Og hans herre sa til ham: Vel gjort, du gode og tro tjener! Du har vært tro over lite, jeg vil sette deg over meget. Gå inn til din herres glede! 24Men også han kom fram som hadde fått den ene talenten, og han sa: Herre, jeg visste at du er en hard mann, som høster der du ikke sådde, og sanker hvor du ikke strødde. 25Derfor ble jeg redd. Jeg gikk og gjemte talenten din i jorden. Se, her har du ditt. 26Men hans herre svarte og sa til ham: Du onde og late tjener! Du visste at jeg høster der jeg ikke sådde og sanker hvor jeg ikke strødde. 27Da burde du ha overlatt pengene mine til utlånerne, så hadde jeg fått mitt igjen med renter når jeg kom. 28Ta derfor fra ham talenten og gi den til ham som har de ti talentene. 29For hver den som har, til ham skal det bli gitt, og han skal ha overflod. Men den som ikke har, skal bli fratatt selv det han har. 30Og kast den unyttige tjeneren ut i mørket utenfor. Der skal de gråte og skjære tenner.
     

    Kjendis

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    Det bør vel riktignok sies at Jesus var temmelig innstilt på prinsipper vi ville kalt sosialistiske/sosialdemokratiske.

    Man kan google og finne, men jeg har funnet, og vår høyst bibellærde ignorant kan ta til seg hva han ikke fikk med seg i "Jesus was a Socialist" timene.


    In America (and in all capitalist countries) people assume their wealth is their own. It's a bedrock belief, we are taught to admire those who build wealth, attain impressive houses, cars, clothes, and retire early to Florida. We are told by the Christian Republican right wing & conservative left that the wealthy worked hard for their money and deserve to reap the benefits. But the Bible tells us differently.

    Luke 12 displays a Jesus delivering parables of a successful businessman. He is so successful that he cannot find enough room for all of his harvest. So the wealthy business man undertakes a massive building project to protect his wealth and plan an early retirement. The "Christian" culture of America would say this man is a success, for the man did what we are told to do all the time: expand, invest, and use for personal benefit. So why does Jesus in his parable consider this an antithesis to success? He instead says God considers this man a "fool" BECAUSE he only used his wealth for his "own" benefit. Jesus goes on to admonish the selfishness and lack of communalism of the businessman. In ultimate renunciation of the man, Jesus advocates the man should have redistributed his wealth to the poor!

    There are countless Biblical stories that match the evil "socialist" economic ethic, such as the story of Zacchaeus the Tax Collector, which, so illuminating, is found in Luke 19:1-10: Zacchaeus gives half of his wealth and pays back four times what he has defrauded. He has put his own wealth and honor in jeopardy in order to benefit his neighbors and his community. Additionally, Luke 16 contains the story of Lazarus and the rich man. The rich man eats wonderful food and dresses in the finest clothes. Lazarus sits outside of his gates and waits for the scraps from his table. Both men die. The rich man lands in torment and Lazarus at Abraham's side. The rich man's sin, was ignoring the suffering of the poor. He thought of his wealth as his own and the poverty and suffering of others as having no connection to him. This view of the world lands him in torment. How can anyone read these things and then claim Jesus would back a system that propagates a personal/private view of wealth? Both characters in these stories are punished because they only thought of themselves and their wealth!

    "Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the Kingdom of God" - Luke 6:20-26

    "Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that will come upon you. Your wealth will rot, and moths will eat your clothes. For your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You who have hoarded wealth in the last days!" - James 5:1-3

    "How terrible for you who are rich now, for you have had your easy life and will get no more..." - Luke 6:24

    "But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you. You will be repaid at the resurrection of the just." - Luke 14:13-14

    If someone takes away your coat, let him have your shirt as well...

    "In the temple courts [Jesus] found men selling cattle, sheep and doves and other sitting at tables exchanging money. So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables." - John 2:14-15. This story which shows Jesus' rage against what is essentially corporate Greed, merging money with state & theological power, is also repeated in Matthew 21:12 (summed here essentially): Jesus walks into the temple courtyard and sees how merchants there change money, they have built their business up around what is supposed to be God's temple. Jesus is horrified by the idea that God's home could be profaned with money and the desire to be wealthy, he loses it, making a whip and begins turning over the tables the merchants are trading upon, he drives out the cattle being sold and screams a ton of insults at the people in the courtyard. Jesus was filled with righteous indignation at the idea of Church being involved with business, he was horrified that it could be used as a network for making money.

    Why do Republicans not feel even a twinge of this divine rage? Why do they say the liberal idea of keeping church separate from state or economics is demonic, when clearly Jesus himself was of the idea?!?!? How do we rectify this with the Republican Christian revulsion to our discussion of taking "in God we trust" off of our money?

    "Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; a man's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions." - Luke 12-15.

    "Truly, I say unto you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven." - Matthew 19:23

    "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's" - Matthew 22:21. Republicans would have us believe that paying taxes is a horrific idea, they don't want to pay into social benefits because it violates their "freedom", but what of their God's commandment to pay taxes?!?!

    "Give to everyone who begs from you..." - Luke 6:30

    "And I'll say to myself, 'You have plenty of good things laid up for many years. Take life easy; eat, drink and be merry.' But God said to him, 'You fool! This very night your life will be demanded from you. Then who will get what you have prepared for yourself?' This is how it will be with anyone who stores up things for himself but is not rich toward God." - Luke 12:19-21

    "So in everything, do to others as you would have them do to you" - Matthew 7:12 or "Love your neighbor as yourself" - Matthew 22:39. This is what Jesus said is the sum of his law. Yet does Republican policy (or even modern Democrat policy) embody that? Does the person who assigns 18,000 Americans to die a year from lack of health care, "love his neighbor"? Does the American who back the war for oil and allowed over a million innocent Iraqis to die, "love his neighbor"? Is a society that doesn't provide free education a display of love for community? Is a society that takes money from the working class to pay for the insane bonuses of wealthy CEOS an act of love for ALL neighbors? Or only an act of love for the rich? And what is it Jesus would say about that?

    "He who oppresses the poor to increase his wealth and he who gives gifts to the rich - both come to poverty." - Proverbs 22:16

    If someone takes what is yours, do not ask for it back again...

    "For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is the root of all evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs." 1 Timothy 6:7-10

    "All the believers were together and had everything in common. They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need...." - Acts 2:44-45

    "But love your enemies, and do them good, and lend, never despairing; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be sons of the Most High: for he is kind toward the unthankful and evil." - Luke 6:35

    "Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth" - 1 Corinthians 10:24. That comment REEKS of "redistribution" that idea that Republican Christians LOATHE. If it is such an evil concept, why does the Bible say we should do it? Moreover, the Bible doesn't claim we should do it in favor of the rich, like we did with the bail-outs. On the contrary, it claims we should forgive the debt of the poor and let the rich fund it!

    Take a look at the story about debt in Luke 7:36-50: We find Jesus eating with a Pharisee, who would be an "elite", a part of the richest in society. Pharisees often threw banquets to show off their wealth, it was a status display in ancient Jerusalem that gained them honor in the eyes of their peers. The Pharisee invited Jesus, but at the party a sinner woman comes in and begins weeping at his feet, washing them. The Pharisee thinks to himself how Jesus must not be a prophet for the woman is of low class & Jesus, if he had divine powers, should have known so. Jesus understands the man's thoughts and counters them with a parable about who would love a wealthy man that forgave debt more, someone who owed 50 pence or one who owed 500. The answer is of course the one who owed 500 and then a long diatribe begins about how the more sinful or impoverished a person is, the more they love who forgives them. He is sure to point out that the pharisee in no way treated him with the same honor as the woman at his feet, because he did not understand the need of the impoverished.

    Imagine if the Republicans who pretend to be Christians REALLY acted like one and instead of authoring bailouts used the 700 billion to buy out the debts of the poor who were in foreclosure. How would that affect our society? We are now in a situation where the rich have MORE money and the working class are MORE IN DEBT, to the point where 1 out of 8 Americans is now facing homelessness! How much crime & threat of violent revolution will we be facing in another three years when we continue on this trend of bailing out rich and we reach the projected number of 50% of families facing homelessness? It stands to reason there Jesus deliberately taught us to pray: 'forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors'. Its a reiteration of the law God gave to the Jews, the law that was ignored so Jesus had to come. There's a ton of debt theme verses from the Bible, and yet the party that claims to embody Christian values say people who advocate giving bail outs to American workers & not American CEOS are "evil socialists"... So the question rises: what does Jesus advocating redistribution make him? Are the Republicans saying Jesus is a socialist? Or are they implying Jesus is Evil? You can't answer that question without revealing Republicans & conservative Democrats for what they are: liars!

    In further reassertion, take one simple glance into Matthew 19:21-24: "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also [...] Jesus answered, 'If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.' But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful; for he had great possessions. Then Jesus said to his disciples, 'I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.'"

    Clearly, those who have possessions of value then are not "perfect." They are deliberately ignoring Jesus' teachings, because they care more about their wealth than they do their Jesus. Knowing this, Republicans and conservative Democrats really have NO right to call themselves Christian.

    "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.' They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?' He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least among you, you did not do for me.'" - Matthew 25:41-45. And so we have Jesus promising to treat Republicans and conservative Democrats EXACTLY how they treated the poor. I may be an Atheist but scriptures like this make me WISH this theology was true just so I could see the day of justice.

    "He is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions, and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain" - 1 Timothy 6:4-5

    And there it is, those who think godliness leads to financial gain do not know the "truth." Why does the 700 club never mentions this verse?!?!? Whenever I turn that shitty show on I see them claim,"give to us and god will return your wealth ten fold." (There by also implying the opposite: the poor are supposedly sinners which is why they have no favor from God) What a fucking scam!!!! And these Christians fall for it CONSTANTLY, because they are too fucking lazy to read their own Bibles, it's so shameful!

    And this isn't the only such verse which absolutely buries the idea that money does NOT equate to divine favor: "When Simon saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money and said, 'Give me also this ability so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.' Peter answered: 'May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money!'" - Acts 8:18-20

    "Whoever loves money never has money enough; whoever loves wealth is never satisfied with his income. This too is meaningless." - Ecclesiastes 5:10

    And finally (at least for this essay, because there are thousands more of such stories in the Bible) we have Matthew 27:3-8, which really encapsulates Jesus' life & teachings on money. Judas had told the where abouts of Jesus to the Roman soldiers for a measly 30 silver. When the Romans condemned Christ, Judas had a fit of remorse and trying to at least do SOMETHING positive out of the terrible fiasco, so he sought out the priests and tried to give them the 30 silver. But not even the corrupt priests, who Jesus was always screaming at, would take the money because it was dirty. So Judas, out of sheer desperation, threw it on the ground and ran off to hang himself. The priests, knowing they could do nothing with the money related to their church, but knowing they had to do SOMETHING of Christ's teachings with it, bought a plot for poor foreigners to be buried at... And what is it I see in this story? That even Judas, the biggest betrayer in all of history, didn't lack the apathy to see he spilled innocent blood. Yet Christians have that apathy all the time.... The Republican American Christian feels nothing about the fact that for every 6 Americans a human being has to die to support their wealth. We are only 5% of the human population and we consume 40% of the world's resources, take for instance, how many people starve to death in Indonesia because we move our corporations there in hopes of paying slave labor so we can get cheaper prices at walmart. We live in a world where 34,000 children die EVERYDAY from starvation. Judas had the morality to kill himself for the blood money he took, American Republican Christians ask for more coin & more blood... And this is why I say that if Jesus were to come back, he'd be called a communist and assassinated again by the cheering right & conservative left...
    Nei,
    Private investeringer lønner seg:

    44Himlenes rike er likt en skatt som var skjult i en åker. En mann fant den, og gjemte den igjen. I sin glede gikk han så bort og solgte alt han eide, og kjøpte åkeren.
    45Igjen er himlenes rike likt en kjøpmann som søkte etter vakre perler.
    46Da han så fant en meget verdifull perle, gikk han bort og solgte alt han eide, og kjøpte den.
     

    Sluket

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    Dette er en tråd om Norge. Jesus har hverken slektninger eller forretningsforbindelser her. Dropp dette Jesuspreiket nå. Det er for spesielt interesserte. Lag en egen tråd.
     

    bambadoo

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    Alt kjendis blander seg inn i dreier seg om det og vi er for slappe til å moderere bort. Er jo tross alt "kristen" helligdag idag.
     

    Panama Red

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    Dette er en tråd om Norge. Jesus har hverken slektninger eller forretningsforbindelser her. Dropp dette Jesuspreiket nå. Det er for spesielt interesserte. Lag en egen tråd.
    Hanvold regner seg sikkert som forretningsfobindelse, men nok om jesus og kjendis nå.
    vold
     

    Hardingfele

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    Syns det passet på Himmelspretten, @Sluket - men enig i at det er tåpelig å melde noe som helst til kjendis-‘boten
     

    Sluket

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    Samme hvem som sier/gjør hva, enten det er å fyre opp eller bringe bensin til bålet! Mange gode og greie tråder blir forlatt og uinteressante når det til stadighet dras inn ikke-relevante saker og vinkler - gjerne over flere sider. Litt tåler man alltids men det går grenser.
     
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