Politikk, religion og samfunn President Donald J. Trump - Quo vadis? (Del 1)

[Asbjørn]

Ja, mitt poeng med å nevne partitilhørigheten hans var å understreke hvor langt dette er fra å være en partipolitisk heksejakt iscenesatt av dårlige tapere. Noen føler det nok slik om dagen:

By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes.
Open, locks,
Whoever knocks.

How now, you secret, black, and midnight hags?
What is ’t you do?

A deed without a name.

I conjure you by that which you profess—
Howe'er you come to know it—answer me.

 

[Dr Dong]

Det er også en indikasjon på hvordan det landet er uten alternativer. Det er fullt av hederlige og oppegående mennesker, men uten politiske alternativ. There is no alternative!

Tillegg: Thatcher mente at det bare var én mulighet. Nå betyr det at det ikke er noen muligheter.

 

[weld77]

Er smått fascinerende at ett av to partier i et land med over 300 millioner innbyggere ikke har en klar kandidat som alternativ. Det er sikkert nok av folk som lusker i kulissene, men for utenforstående er det svært langt fra klart hvem som evt skal stille i nominasjonsvalget ved neste korsvei.

 

[Dr Dong]

^
Mest av alt et resultat av innavl innenfor en snever interessehorisont. En strømlinjer seg til konturløshet hvor alle kyr er grå.

 

[Cyber]

Ja, mitt poeng med å nevne partitilhørigheten hans var å understreke hvor langt dette er fra å være en partipolitisk heksejakt iscenesatt av dårlige tapere. Noen føler det nok slik om dagen:

I conjure you by that which you profess—
Howe'er you come to know it—answer me.

Hehe, tenkte på noen andre linjer fra samme verk her om dagen da jeg var innom her...

“Fair is foul, and foul is fair, hover through fog and filthy air.”

“Look like the innocent flower,
But be the serpent under it.”

 

[Hardingfele]

^
Mest av alt et resultat av innavl innenfor en snever interessehorisont. En strømlinjer seg til konturløshet hvor alle kyr er grå.

Demokratene presterte å utpeke Joe Kennedy III for tilsvarstalen etter Trumps State of the Union. "An old Democrat's opinion of what a young Democrat should be like" var en treffende kommentar. Men det er mange som går oppvarmingsheat, vi får håpe det kommer en bedre kandidat. Dessverre går det rykter om at Biden har tenkt å stille. Over halvparten av amerikanske ungdommer 18-30 er skeptiske til kapitalismen og ønsker et annet økonomisk system, noe det Demokratiske partiet står uten svar på.

 

[Asbjørn]

Apropos episoden hvor russiske leiesoldater ble skutt opp av AC-130 gunships i Syria her om dagen: Det ser ut som om den operasjonen var et initiativ fra de samme halvstatlige mafiosoene som driver trollfabrikken i St Pete:
The oil field carnage that Moscow doesn't want to talk about

But why would Wagner take such a risk to take control of the oil field?
Wagner is led by Dmitry Utkin, a former colonel in the Russian special forces who is under US sanctions for assisting pro-Russian separatists in the conflict in eastern Ukraine.
Utkin was once head of security for a Russian oligarch called Yevgeny Prigozhin, who has close ties to the Kremlin. Prigozhin was indicted by US Special Counsel Robert Mueller on Friday for funding the Internet Research Agency, a Kremlin-linked troll group accused of interfering in the 2016 US presidential election campaign by sowing discord online.
Prigozhin controls a network of Russian companies, including Concord Management and Consulting. Company records show that someone named Dmitry Utkin, the same name as the Wagner boss, is director general of Concord.
Prigozhin and Concord have denied being linked to Wagner. Concord said last year: "We do not have any information about this organization."
Last month, the US Treasury Department designated another Russian company, Evro Polis, "for being owned or controlled by Yevgeny Prigozhin."

CNN has seen a copy of a contract between Evro Polis, and the Syrian regime, under which Evro Polis gets 25% of oil revenues from fields that are recovered from rebel control.
"It seems that on some level all Prigozhin's financial assets overlap and he uses the money from them to fund projects like the troll factory, Wagner, Evro Polis and others," Ruslan Leviev, the activist, says.
Essentially, Wagner does the fighting; Evro Polis gets the oil and gas. Coneco, the oil field near Deir Ezzor, is one of the most valuable still in rebel hands.

Nå venter vi bare på rasende tweets fra Trump om hvordan denne massakren var et overgrep fra amerikanske deep state-aktører mot uskyldige russere på fisketur i ørkenen - fordi Putin har fortalt ham det, og da må det jo være sant.

Imens, et par av dagens kommentarer:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...d888f2-14f3-11e8-8b08-027a6ccb38eb_story.html
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/18/politics/donald-trump-florida-shooting-twitter/index.html

 

[Valentino]

Ja men altså:
https://www.nrk.no/norge/usas-nye-ambassador_-_trump-er-mye-smartere-enn-det-verden-tror-1.13917484

 

[AndersR]

Skal jo ikke så mye til for å være smartere enn hva verden tror han er...

 

[HC]

^
Mest av alt et resultat av innavl innenfor en snever interessehorisont. En strømlinjer seg til konturløshet hvor alle kyr er grå.

Demokratene presterte å utpeke Joe Kennedy III for tilsvarstalen etter Trumps State of the Union. "An old Democrat's opinion of what a young Democrat should be like" var en treffende kommentar. Men det er mange som går oppvarmingsheat, vi får håpe det kommer en bedre kandidat. Dessverre går det rykter om at Biden har tenkt å stille. Over halvparten av amerikanske ungdommer 18-30 er skeptiske til kapitalismen og ønsker et annet økonomisk system, noe det Demokratiske partiet står uten svar på.

Både Kirsten Gillibrand og Cory Booker har sagt at de ikke lenger vil ta penger fra Corporate PAC's, så det ser ut til at to opplagte kandidater for 2020 går i en mer progressiv retning. Dette er en interessant og meget positiv utvikling, kanskje noen likevel har lært av Bernie Sanders' enorme suksess med "small donations". Det ville vært befriende hvis den neste presidenten ikke "skyldte" corporate America en eneste cent.

 

[Asbjørn]

Kommentariatet ser ut til å våkne der borte: Whatever Trump Is Hiding Is Hurting All of Us Now

President Trump is either totally compromised by the Russians or is a towering fool, or both, but either way he has shown himself unwilling or unable to defend America against a Russian campaign to divide and undermine our democracy.

That is, either Trump’s real estate empire has taken large amounts of money from shady oligarchs linked to the Kremlin — so much that they literally own him; or rumors are true that he engaged in sexual misbehavior while he was in Moscow running the Miss Universe contest, which Russian intelligence has on tape and he doesn’t want released; or Trump actually believes Russian President Vladimir Putin when he says he is innocent of intervening in our elections — over the explicit findings of Trump’s own C.I.A., N.S.A. and F.B.I. chiefs.

In sum, Trump is either hiding something so threatening to himself, or he’s criminally incompetent to be commander in chief. It is impossible yet to say which explanation for his behavior is true, but it seems highly likely that one of these scenarios explains Trump’s refusal to respond to Russia’s direct attack on our system — a quiescence that is simply unprecedented for any U.S. president in history. Russia is not our friend. It has acted in a hostile manner. And Trump keeps ignoring it all.

What we have instead is a president vulgarly tweeting that the Russians are “laughing their asses off in Moscow” for how we’ve been investigating their interventions — and exploiting the terrible school shooting in Florida — and the failure of the F.B.I. to properly forward to its Miami field office a tip on the killer — to throw the entire F.B.I. under the bus and create a new excuse to shut down the Mueller investigation.

My guess is what Trump is hiding has to do with money. It’s something about his financial ties to business elites tied to the Kremlin. They may own a big stake in him. Who can forget that quote from his son Donald Trump Jr. from back in 2008: “Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross section of a lot of our assets.” They may own our president.

But whatever it is, Trump is either trying so hard to hide it or is so naïve about Russia that he is ready to not only resist mounting a proper defense of our democracy, he’s actually ready to undermine some of our most important institutions, the F.B.I. and Justice Department, to keep his compromised status hidden.

That must not be tolerated. This is code red. The biggest threat to the integrity of our democracy today is in the Oval Office.

Denne uken kan bli livlig.

 

[Disqutabel]

"You just can't make this shit up..."

En hver forfatters drømmescenario, "fienden" har funnet veien til den absolutte toppen i motstanderes leir. Hvis noe så hakkende galt skulle vise seg å ha noen substans, er det jo en så himmelropende uslåelig verdensrekord, at man på mange måter bare må applaudere den kløkt og plan som ligger bak.

Enn så lenge velger jeg å anse det hele som en litt overivrig konspirasjonsteori, men som ofte tilfellet er, har jo konspirasjonsteoriene noe ved seg, tross alt. Det kommer ikke ut av intet. Forskjellen denne gangen, er at dess mer man ettergår teorien, dess mer rett ser den ut til å være. Debunkingen ser fortsatt ut til å være et stykke unna.

Disqutabel

 

[Hardingfele]

Det veier tungt at Friedman angriper Trump-administrasjonen. Hauk før Irak, for det meste pro-GOP og definitivt pro næringslivet.

Fra en kommentar til artikkelen Asbjørn linket til:

Can anyone imagine this happening during a Democratic presidency without the GOP piling on and trying to decide whether the appropriate response is impeachment or a firing squad? The FBI and Trump's own homeland security advisors tell us that the Russians intruded in our elections and, still, The Donald continues to deny it. Who does he need to hear from: God? And his congressional enablers and the 35% of America that can't bring itself to believe that The Donald can ever possibly be wrong about anything? I guess they're torn between thinking that Russians didn't really tamper with our elections (perhaps they just got lost somewhere between Moscow and Mars) and thinking that, in the end, it just doesn't matter because they ended up with the President they always wanted. Either way, it looks as though all the time and money we spent winning the Cold War was a complete waste.

Det er vel dette siste mange er i ferd med å våkne til.

 

[Asbjørn]

Dette er heller ikke "good optics" for presidenten:



Jeg merker meg at NRA's Twitter-konto har holdt kjeft siden siste skolemassakre, men Trump har selvsagt ikke skamvett nok til å gjøre det hvis han kan bruke det som et halmstrå mot Muellers tog som kommer imot ham.

 

[kasol]

Trump har jo selv sagt han uten problemer kan skyte mennesker...

Donald Trump: 'I could shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose any voters'
Republican frontrunner is so supremely confident that he believes he could commit murder and maintain his lead over his opponents

Donald Trump: I could shoot somebody and not lose votes – video
US Republican frontrunner Donald Trump is so confident in his support base that he said he could stand on New York’s Fifth Avenue “and shoot somebody” and still not lose voters.

Speaking in Iowa, Trump claimed he could withstand any attempt by his political rivals to knock him off his top perch.

His typically inflammatory comments come as Trump’s Republican rival Marco Rubio won the endorsement Saturday from the Des Moines Register, Iowa’s biggest and most influential newspaper. The Register picked Hillary Clinton for the Democrats, nine days from the first nominating contest in Iowa.

The endorsements were big developments for both Rubio and Clinton. Rubio, a Florida senator, has been running third behind Trump and Texas Senator Ted Cruz in Iowa, while Clinton has struggled to fend off a challenge to the Democratic nomination from Bernie Sanders.

Trump and Cruz, Trump’s chief obstacle to a victory in Iowa, held competing rallies across the state while in New Hampshire, other candidates battled for votes in that state’s 9 February first-in-the-nation primary for the 8 November election.

Trump, the New York billionaire and former reality TV star who has been virtually impervious to attacks from his opponents, pushed the limits of his political rhetoric again in Sioux Center, Iowa.

“I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose any voters,” he said.


Can Trump's top operative in Iowa help the frontrunner live up to his polls?
Read more
For his rivals, Trump has become a hard target to criticise because not all of his supporters are conservatives and many are most interested in his projection of strength, not where he stands on a particular issue.

The latest Reuters-Ipsos tracking poll had Trump pulling in 40.6% support of Republican voters nationally. A CNN/ORC poll has Trump up in Iowa with 37% to 26% for Cruz, who has led in some other Iowa polls.

Trump did not repeat the “shoot somebody” line at a later rally in Pella, while stressing to the crowd there that he would tone down his rhetoric as president.

Cruz responded to Trump at an event in Ankeny, where he picked up the endorsement of conservative firebrand Glenn Beck, a counterweight of sorts to Trump’s endorsement by 2008 vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin.

“Listen, I will let Donald speak for himself. I can say I have no intention of shooting anybody in this campaign,” Cruz said.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...ould-shoot-somebody-and-still-not-lose-voters

 

[Hardingfele]

All in all, the odds are disconcertingly high that Russia, or somebody, has blackmail leverage over the president of the United States.

www.nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2...ce-president-trump-is-being-blackmailed.html?

 

[HC]

Dette er heller ikke "good optics" for presidenten:

Vis vedlegget 481524

Jeg merker meg at NRA's Twitter-konto har holdt kjeft siden siste skolemassakre, men Trump har selvsagt ikke skamvett nok til å gjøre det hvis han kan bruke det som et halmstrå mot Muellers tog som kommer imot ham.

Smart move, bare sånn i tilfellet det fantes noen i FBI som ikke hatet han tilstrekkelig

 

[Hardingfele]

Små utdrag fra Fox-natten, sannhetsorakelet det sverges til av mange. Eller ofres? Bl.a. integritet?



Men Tucker Carlson er en klovn.

Hva med Hannity, som nå forsvarer Russland?
https://mobile.twitter.com/aravosis/status/965789381717045248

 

[Hardingfele]

Jennifer Rubin i fryktelige MSM Washington Post.

Trump also lashed out at national security adviser H.R. McMaster, who said at the Munich Security Conference there was “incontrovertible” evidence of Russian interference. (“General McMaster forgot to say that the results of the 2016 election were not impacted or changed by the Russians and that the only Collusion was between Russia and Crooked H, the DNC and the Dems. Remember the Dirty Dossier, Uranium, Speeches, Emails and the Podesta Company.”) McMaster did not “forget.” He would not have made these false accusations because that would have made him sound unhinged and would cause us to worry about the mental health of our national security adviser.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...pths-of-his-awfulness/?utm_term=.9f679b08d630

 

[Asbjørn]

After Florida School Shooting, Russian ‘Bot’ Army Pounced

When the Russian bots jumped on the hashtag #Parklandshooting — initially created to spread news of the shooting — they quickly stoked tensions. Exploiting the issue of mental illness in the gun control debate, they propagated the notion that Nikolas Cruz, the suspected gunman, was a mentally ill “lone killer.” They also claimed that he had searched for Arabic phrases on Google before the shooting. Simultaneously, the bots started other hashtags, like #ar15, for the semiautomatic rifle used in the shooting, and #NRA.

 

[Asbjørn]

Viktig steg mot å bryte GOPs maktmonopol: Pennsylvania Supreme Court draws ‘much more competitive’ district map to overturn Republican gerrymander

 

[Asbjørn]

Det begynner vel å bli nokså tydelig hvordan dette alt-right økosystemet fungerer, gjør det ikke?
Julian Assange messages fake Sean Hannity Twitter account offering 'news' on Democrat senator investigating Trump-Russia links | The Independent

WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange reportedly sent messages to a fake Sean Hannity Twitter account offering "news" on a Democratic senator investigating links between the Trump campaign and Russia.

“Have some good news about Warner,” he allegedly wrote to Dell Gilliam, a woman from Texas who set up a Twitter profile impersonating Mr Hannity after the Fox News host’s account was temporarily deactivated.

Mr Assange appeared to encourage Ms Gilliam, who named her new Twitter handle @SeanHannity__, to contact him over “other channels” to discuss Mark Warner, the top Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee investigating Russian interference in the 2016 US election.

Fox News Under FBI Counterintelligence Investigation

Specifically, Sean Hannity is on signals intelligence co-ordinating his pro-Trump message with organs of the Russian state, such as RT, Sputnik, Wikileaks and Julian Assange. However, emails co-ordinating messaging with registered agents of the Russian state are said to exist from more shows than that of Sean Hannity.

Furthermore, sources familiar with the matter say that the FBI is actively considering a referral to the FCC, in addition to any criminal prosecutions that may result for individuals not registering under FARA for coordinating with official agents of the Russian state.

Yep, Hannity said the FBI's conduct in the Russia investigation was 'Watergate times a thousand'

The memo also reveals, according to Hannity, that, “The Mueller investigation is and was a witch hunt from the beginning. It’s built on a house of cards and tonight it is crashing down.”

And he had a few recommendations of what to do next, for example:

“The Mueller investigation must be shut down…

And:

“The people responsible must go to jail…”

Also:

“Look, if we as a country, if we care about our Constitution, if we believe in civil liberties, if we believe in these protections, then the special counsel must be disbanded immediately. And, by the way, nobody else will say this, all charges against Paul Manafort and General Michael Flynn need to be dropped. It’s that simple.”

Russian Trolls Use Fox News's Sean Hannity to Undermine Mueller's Trump Probe, Report Says

For example, on December 20, after Representative Jim Jordan (R-Ohio) claimed on Fox News that the FBI had worked against Trump's presidential campaign, Hannity tweeted, "CONSPIRACY: GOP Lawmakers Says FEDERAL CONSPIRACY to Prevent Trump Presidency."

That day, Hannity's website was among the top 10 shared by the network of Russian trolls monitored by Hamilton 68.

This happened again on January 18 when House Republicans called for Representative Devin Nunes (D-Calif.), who has been accused by Democrats of attempting to derail the Mueller probe, to release a memo that supposedly provides evidence the FBI and Justice Department conducted improper surveillance in relation to the Russia investigation.

At the beginning of his program that night, Hannity directly addressed Mueller: "I have a message tonight for the special counsel, Robert Mueller. Your witch hunt is now over. Time to close the doors."

Within the next 24 hours or so, analysis from Hamilton 68 showed the hashtag #ReleaseTheMemo had been tweeted by 600 monitored Kremlin accounts approximately 3,700 times. These accounts exist in addition to nearly 3,000 Russian trolls uncovered by Twitter in November 2017.

Hvis jeg tenker litt sjøl, G_B, vil jeg si at Hannity befinner seg et sted i den glidende overgangen mellom en nyttig idiot (полезный идиот) og en aktiv påvirkningsagent/forræder i russisk tjeneste. Det kommer litt an på om han får betalt fra den russiske ambassaden eller ikke. Det er allerede en god del russiske penger som skvalper rundt på ytre høyre fløy, så det vil ikke forundre meg om det drypper litt på Hannity også:
NRA, Russia and Trump: How 'dark money' is poisoning American democracy

 

[Gjestemedlem]

Bruker rifler som lotteripremie
Både et baseballag for små barn og en kongresskandidat fortsetter som planlagt med lotterier der premien er en AR-15, samme våpen som ble brukt i skolemassakren i Florida.

https://www.nrk.no/urix/bruker-rifler-som-lotteripremie-1.13925075

 

[Asbjørn]

Der ramlet det inn en siktelse til, gitt.
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/20/politics/robert-mueller-rick-gates/index.html
En god gammeldags opprulling av en kriminell liga.

 

[erato]

Det kan bli mye å bortforklare for enkelte etter hvert:

Gates, meanwhile, has had attorneys working on a plea deal with Mueller's office for more than a month, indicating he's poised to cooperate in the investigation, sources familiar with the case told CNN last week. But no deal has materialized as of Tuesday morning.

He has already spoken to Mueller's team about his case multiple times, CNN first reported last week. His cooperation could be another building block for Mueller in a possible case against Trump or key members of his team.

It would also increase the pressure to cooperate on Manafort, who has pleaded not guilty to Mueller's indictment and is preparing for a trial on alleged financial crimes unrelated to the campaign. Gates pleaded not guilty on October 30 alongside Manafort.

Nei vent! Hillary var jo mye verre (og blås i at alle påstander blåser bort uten substans og at hun uansett aldri var, eller ble, president).

 

[tkr]

Det skulle være både morsomt og ironisk om DJT ble tiltalt og straffet for skattesnyteri- det Al Capone ble buret inne for til syvende og sist. Sammenlikningen er tilsiktet.

mvh

 

[Asbjørn]

Ja, og det er nok et seriøst signal til ganske mange i at denne advokaten nå er tiltalt for å lyve for FBI:

Special counsel Robert Mueller has charged a lawyer with allegedly lying to investigators about covering up his discussions about Ukraine with former Trump campaign aide Rick Gates and another person in September 2016, while the Trump campaign operation was in full swing.

Alex Van Der Zwaan, who is expected to plead guilty Tuesday afternoon, is also accused of lying about the failure to turn over an email communication to the special counsel's office.

En ting er at Trump lyver hver gang han åpner kjeften, men her sies det ganske klart at underordnede som lyver i et forsøk på å beskytte sjefen vil bli godt kjent med innsiden av et føderalt fengsel. Dessuten er det nok et bevis på hvor nære forbindelsene til Putin-banden har vært:

Skadden Arps said in a statement Tuesday that the firm terminated Van Der Zwaan's employment last year and is cooperating with authorities. Van Der Zwaan was based in London for the firm.
He is the son-in-law of Russian billionaire German Khan, who is one of the most prominent businessmen in Russia. Khan co-founded Alfa Group, a large financial conglomerate, and was recently named in the Treasury Department's list of Russian oligarchs. CNN reported last year that the FBI examined whether there was a computer server connection during the 2016 presidential campaign between Alfa Bank and the Trump Organization, though there isn't any indication that Van Der Zwaan is connected to that matter.

 

[Hardingfele]

Er vel bare å sette seg til rette og studere raset av tiltaler og skandaler som vil bli avslørt etterhvert. Er jo flere russere og folk med forbindelser til Russland, i Trump-kampanjen, -administrasjonen og -kommentariatet, enn man finner på en strippeklubb i Moskva.

 

[Hardingfele]

Jeg husker med hvilken iver de fæle motdemonstrantene ble angrepet her inne, da de patriotisk innstilte og fredelige neo-naziene som marsjerte i Charlottesville ble utsatt for voldelige angrep. Riktignok så jeg en video av en Blut und Eisen fakkelmarsj og en bil som pløyde inn i demonstranter. Men det ble påstått at sistnevnte hadde våpen og at bilisten var i en tilstand av panikk fordi han følte seg truet.

Nåja. Det er reist rettssak mot de uskyldige neo-naziene og bl.a. denne videoen, tatt opp av dem selv, er litt slitsom for forsvarerne.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...?ncid=tweetlnkushpmg00000016&section=politics

The neo-Nazis gathered in a safe house a few hours after the deadly “Unite the Right” rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, last August. One of their chieftains, Robert “Azzmador” Ray, wanted to say a few words that evening, according to a description of the speech Ray posted online. As the man on the ground for the Daily Stormer, the biggest hate site in the U.S., Ray had been in the middle of the action all day, leading his “Stormers” into battle. Now he wanted to read a fiery speech the site’s publisher, Andrew Anglin, had written for the occasion.

“My brothers,” Ray began, looking at his phone in the dark room. “A day is quickly coming when it is we who will be digging graves.” The neo-Nazis howled their approval. For them, the “Unite the Right” rally had always been more than a protest against the removal of a statue of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee. It was, as Ray and Anglin put it on the Daily Stormer, a “battle cry” for white nationalism.

“This is our war!” Ray yelled in the safe house. “This has always been our war. And I wouldn’t want it any other way. Death to traitors! Death to the enemies of the white race! Hail victory!”

Litt strevsomt med alle meldingene de har på internettet, med planer og annet, som viser noe helt annet enn fredelige hensikter.

But lawyers for the plaintiffs, who have pored over thousands of online messages between the defendants and their followers, say that the First Amendment is no shield and that the violence that occurred in Charlottesville was no accident. “It reflected months of extensive, coordinated, and militaristic planning by Defendants and their co-conspirators,” the plaintiffs’ legal team alleged in a court filing on Tuesday.

Lange diskusjoner om strategi og forberedelser.

They show the white supremacists discussing how to evade the police, how to use military-style tactics, which weapons to bring, where to meet, how to fund their operations, which Nazi symbols to wear and how to best injure black people, Jews and anyone who might stand in their way, the plaintiffs’ lawyers wrote in Tuesday’s court filing. Some of the chats even discussed attacking anti-racist protesters with cars.

Og en viss grad av fryd etter den "enorme moralske seieren".

As the plaintiffs note, the defendants didn’t just discuss the potential for violence before the rally, they celebrated after the violence broke out. Anglin joked on the Daily Stormer about Heyer’s death. Spencer told The New York Times that Aug. 12 was a “huge moral victory.” Cantwell told Vice, “it was worth it. Nobody on our side died … none of our people killed anybody unjustly.”

 

[triodelab]

Trump er vei ikke verre enn tidligere presidenter. Å så tvil og skape intriger og konflikter omkring i verden er jo ikke noe nytt, dette er jo noe alle presidenter har drevet med siden slutten av 1800 tallet. Trump er faktisk den første presidenten som snakker et folkelig språk.

 

[erato]

Det er vel ikke utenrikspolitikken som står i sentrum her, forholdet til Russland har i hvert fall lite med utenrikspolitikk å gjøre. Og hvis du kaller hans forvirrede, vulgære, usammenhengende tweeting for folkelig språk så har du jammen lave tanker om folk.

 

[defacto]

Trump er vei ikke verre enn tidligere presidenter. Å så tvil og skape intriger og konflikter omkring i verden er jo ikke noe nytt, dette er jo noe alle presidenter har drevet med siden slutten av 1800 tallet. Trump er faktisk den første presidenten som snakker et folkelig språk.

Jeg er nysgjerrig, snakker vi nå om presidenter i USA eller andre mere diktatoriske land, som det er lett å sammenligne med for øyeblikket?
Og uansett, hvilken president mener du er nærmest Trump i handling og tale (les: Twittering)?

 

[AndersR]

Bruker rifler som lotteripremie
Både et baseballag for små barn og en kongresskandidat fortsetter som planlagt med lotterier der premien er en AR-15, samme våpen som ble brukt i skolemassakren i Florida.

https://www.nrk.no/urix/bruker-rifler-som-lotteripremie-1.13925075

Tror ikke vi skal gi Donald skylda for dette. Han har mer enn nok annet på samvittigheten. Ingen grunn til å gi han ansvar for dette også.
Skulle vi gitt den rødgrønne regjeringa skylda for at speiderforeninger hadde jakt- og turkniver i lotteripremier i etterkant av trikkemassakren i Oslo der det ble brukt en stor jaktkniv?

Selv om Donald mener at han er den eneste som betyr noe, vil det jo ikke si at han kan stilles ansvarlig for alle problemer som finnes i USA. Selv om det er fristende.

 

[kasol]

Det handler da ikke om å gi ham skylda men påpeka at han støtter galskapen som gjøre enhver tulling inklusive metalt syke kan kjøpe seg så mange assult rifler han bare vil inkluisve effektive magasiner, modifikasjoner etc. En amerikaner klarer alså ikke å forsvare seg selv med pistol, hagle eller rifle - han må ha optil flere automatvåpen for i det hele tatt å føle seg trygg.....Når jeg var på våpenmesse i Tulsa under studietiden (95/97) solgte de alt du trengte for å modifisere til helautomat, Raufoss sniper ammo from Sweden og 12.7 mm for hunting.....

 

[AndersR]

Det handler da ikke om å gi ham skylda men påpeka at han støtter galskapen [....]

Denne galskapen kan han ikke gå i mot. Ikke andre tidligere republikanske presidenter heller. Da mister han over halvparten av de gjenværende velgerne sine. Muligens flere. Det er et ikke-tema for republikanere. Spesielt de som er udugelige og ikke har noe annet å by på. Som Donald.

[edit] ikke helt korrekt, Donald kan også by på en god dose rett-i-fjeset rasisme, som naturlig nok faller i god jord hos en del av (ofte de samme) velgerne. Men jeg tror ikke det hjelper å være rasist om han "tar" våpnene deres.[/edit]

 

[Asbjørn]

The Donald skal nok få en bit av skylden, han også. Han opphevet en restriksjon fra Obamas tid som gjorde det enklere å nekte mentalt syke å kjøpe våpen. Selv mentalt syke har statsborgerlige rettigheter under andre grunnlovstillegg, etc. Så bort med den regelen.
Donald Trump Revoked Obama-Era Gun Checks For Mentally Ill Law | Fortune

Apropos galskap: Kirke i USA oppfordrer til å ta med automatvåpen til seremoni

 

[AndersR]

Absolutt et gyldig poeng.

 

[Slubbert]

Amerikanere tror at mennesker kan deles inn i "good guys" og "bad guys", og hvis "good guys" har våpen gjør det samfunnet tryggere. Hvis de forbys er det bare "bad guys" som får tak i dem (ulovlig). Dette er antageligvis formet av religion, denne forestillingen gjennomsyrer også andre religiøse samfunn som i midtøsten, men også Hollywood. Det er jo en del mer nyanserte forestillinger i noen Hollywoodfilmer, og Hollywood er generelt liberalt, men "good guys vs. bad guys" er fortsatt en førende fremstilling.

Realiteten er så klart at de fleste massedrapsmenn er "good guys" inntil det en dag av én eller annen grunn klikker for dem. Ondskap er en religiøs fremstilling som har lite med virkeligheten å gjøre.

 

[Hardingfele]

Om Trump er verre eller bedre enn andre presidenter?

Spør man amerikanske eksperter på historie og politikk forbundet med embedet er svaret ganske tydelig.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...up-against-the-best-and-worst-presidents.html

 

[triodelab]

Amerikanske . Vet no ikke hvor mye demokrati som er igjen hverken i USA eller EU eller i Norge for den saks skyld. Det er penger og makt som rår. Når set gjelder å blande seg inn i andre land så er vel både USA og Russland på samme nivå. Ho Merkel va no ikke så lite fortørnet over USAs innblanding i avlyttingssaken for ikke å snakke om Per Borten som i sin tid måtte hive ut secret service agenter fra sitt statsministerkontor. De lurte faktisk på hvem Borten var og han måtte noe indignert svare at han faktisk var statsministeren i Norge.