Politikk, religion og samfunn President Donald J. Trump - Quo vadis? (Del 1)

Diskusjonstråd Se tråd i gallerivisning

  • Status
    Stengt for ytterligere svar.

    Fjernis 3.0

    Hi-Fi entusiast
    Ble medlem
    13.10.2018
    Innlegg
    395
    Antall liker
    18
    Underlig at Fjernis synes det er bedre å støtte SA enn Iran. Salafismen, som var/er drivkraften bak IS støttes jo av (kommer fra) SA, og SA driver med en utstrakt økonomisk støtte til å bygge moskéer i Europa for å utbre islam i vesten.
    Personlig synes jeg ikke man burde støtte noen av dem.
    Jeg støtter ingen av de, jeg kritiserte Trump i denne tråden da han krøp som en hund for å få gullkjedet sitt fra SA, men jeg kan forstå at Trump heller vil samarbeide med SA enn Iran, spesielt med tanke på trusselen mot Israel.

    For min del så ønsker jeg regimene i SA og Iran til helsike.

    Kongen av Belgia inngikk en avtale med kongen av SA om bygging av moskee i Brussel mot gode oljeavtaler allerede i 1967, en annen ting er at SA hadde ikke bygget en eneste moskee i vesten hvis de vestlige politkerne ikke ville at de skulle det.
     
    Sist redigert:

    Fjernis 3.0

    Hi-Fi entusiast
    Ble medlem
    13.10.2018
    Innlegg
    395
    Antall liker
    18
    Nå tar jeg påskeferie fra forumet, skal gjøre hage og husarbeid, skal også legge inn ca 800 cd'er in på harddisk.

    Så dere får ha en fin påske :)
     
    G

    Gjestemedlem

    Gjest
    Symes det er langt verre den stillheten det har vært fra de andre vestlige lederne angående brannen i Notre-Dame
    Ildebrann i et bedehus er jo ille nok det, og det har jo vært mye skriverier om saken og kollektskålen har gått varm hos lokale milliardærer. Men hva skal nå "vestlige ledere" bidra med da, annet enn ... "uffda så synd" eller noe..
     

    otare

    Æresmedlem
    Ble medlem
    04.04.2007
    Innlegg
    14.564
    Antall liker
    10.814
    Sted
    Trondheim
    Underlig at Fjernis synes det er bedre å støtte SA enn Iran. Salafismen, som var/er drivkraften bak IS støttes jo av (kommer fra) SA, og SA driver med en utstrakt økonomisk støtte til å bygge moskéer i Europa for å utbre islam i vesten.
    Personlig synes jeg ikke man burde støtte noen av dem.
    For min del så ønsker jeg regimene i SA og Iran til helsike.
    Så hvorfor hjelpe det ene? Hvorfor hjelpe noen av dem i det hele tatt? USA trenger jo ikke oljen til SA lenger, da de har større oljeproduksjon selv.

    Kongen av Belgia inngikk en avtale med kongen av SA om bygging av moskee i Brussel mot gode oljeavtaler allerede i 1967, en annen ting er at SA hadde ikke bygget en eneste moskee i vesten hvis de vestlige politkerne ikke ville at de skulle det.
    Så du mener at det er OK for politikere å nekte private å selge land hvis de ikke liker de som skal kjøpe? Så hvis politikerne i din kommune ikke liker det du gjør så skal de kunne nekte deg å kjøpe en tomt å bygge hus? De kan selvfølgelig nekte SA å kjøpe tomter, men de kan vel knapt nekte en muslimsk menighet å få pengegaver.
     

    Distinctive

    Æresmedlem
    Ble medlem
    04.12.2006
    Innlegg
    11.063
    Antall liker
    3.596
    Sted
    Stavanger
    Symes det er langt verre den stillheten det har vært fra de andre vestlige lederne angående brannen i Notre-Dame
    Ildebrann i et bedehus er jo ille nok det, og det har jo vært mye skriverier om saken og kollektskålen har gått varm hos lokale milliardærer. Men hva skal nå "vestlige ledere" bidra med da, annet enn ... "uffda så synd" eller noe..
    Sikkert bedre med litt kollekt enn å betale forsikringssummen.
     

    Hardingfele

    Æresmedlem
    Ble medlem
    25.10.2014
    Innlegg
    24.170
    Antall liker
    18.468
    Torget vurderinger
    2
    ^ Neida, Trump er et geni, et unikum, den best egnede, ufeilbarlig og han har gode gener!

    Blir forunderlig når det hele rakner og folk må våkne fra selvhypnosen.
     

    Asbjørn

    Rubinmedlem
    Ble medlem
    26.03.2006
    Innlegg
    38.812
    Antall liker
    39.970
    Sted
    Vingulmǫrk
    Torget vurderinger
    2
    https://www.dn.no/utenriks/ivanka-t...orslag-om-toppjobb-i-verdensbanken/2-1-590054
    I et intervju med nyhetsbyrået AP bekrefter Ivanka Trump at faren tok opp «spørsmålet» om den da ledige toppjobben med henne. Hun svarte at hun er «fornøyd med jobben» hun har i dag som seniorrådgiver i Det hvite hus.
    https://www.apnews.com/e30fbfc3b3fd4e97aaa9c0e5dfa7f1f7
    As she concluded the trip, Ivanka Trump made clear she relished the work she was doing. She said her father recently asked her if she was interested in the job of World Bank chief but that she decided she was happy with her current role in the administration. She worked on the selection process for the new head of the 189-nation World Bank, U.S. Treasury official David Malpass, and said he would do an “incredible job.”

    Asked if her father had approached her about other top jobs, Ivanka Trump said she would “keep that between us.” But she did say she does not see a run for office in her future. She also said she had no plans to leave her White House role any time soon.
     

    Asbjørn

    Rubinmedlem
    Ble medlem
    26.03.2006
    Innlegg
    38.812
    Antall liker
    39.970
    Sted
    Vingulmǫrk
    Torget vurderinger
    2
    https://www.apnews.com/48f9d5132d7a4e2d823edad8fc407979
    Public at last, special counsel Robert Mueller’s report revealed to a waiting nation Thursday that President Donald Trump tried to seize control of the Russia probe and force Mueller’s removal to stop him from investigating potential obstruction of justice by the president.

    Mueller laid out multiple episodes in which Trump directed people around him to try to influence or curtail the Russia investigation after the special counsel’s appointment in May 2017. Those efforts “were mostly unsuccessful, but that is largely because the persons who surrounded the President declined to carry out orders or accede to his requests,” Mueller wrote.
    Påskelektyre:
    https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/5955249-Report.html
    https://www.lawfareblog.com/document-mueller-report
     

    Gunnar_Brekke

    Bransjeaktør
    Ble medlem
    28.11.2002
    Innlegg
    3.241
    Antall liker
    2.887
    Sted
    Kongsberg
    I stedet for å kaste bort mer tid på den vanlige propagandaen fra VG og resten av søplemedia,
    kanskje dere vil bruke litt tid på en historieleksjon om Demokratenes virke gjennom historien.
    Som inneholdt en del saker som i hvert fall var nye for meg. God fornøyelse ;)

     

    Hardingfele

    Æresmedlem
    Ble medlem
    25.10.2014
    Innlegg
    24.170
    Antall liker
    18.468
    Torget vurderinger
    2
    Ooops. Barr omskrev konklusjonene ganske radikalt.

    Før og etter publisering.

    DDFF4BE9-5757-4DBC-A87D-0B7117D101C2.png
     

    Asbjørn

    Rubinmedlem
    Ble medlem
    26.03.2006
    Innlegg
    38.812
    Antall liker
    39.970
    Sted
    Vingulmǫrk
    Torget vurderinger
    2
    Over 100 kontakter mellom Trump-kampanjen og russiske agenter, ja.

    Det Barr skrev i sin oppsummering:
    As the report states: ‘[T]he investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.’
    Det som faktisk står i rapporten, hvis man tar med hele setningen og ikke klipper bort de første to tredjedelene:
    Although the investigation established that the Russian government perceived it would benefit from a Trump presidency and worked to secure that outcome, and that the Campaign expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts, the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.
    Barr brukte nok opp hele sin troverdighet fra en lang juridisk karriere den ene dagen. Det var det Trump ansatte ham for å gjøre, det har han gjort, og i neste omdreining av reality-showet blir han kastet under bussen, han også.
     

    erato

    Æresmedlem
    Ble medlem
    15.03.2003
    Innlegg
    20.131
    Antall liker
    10.794
    Sted
    Bergen
    Torget vurderinger
    1
    Det spiller vel ingen rolle så lenge Demokratene en gang i tida var mye verre?
     

    Asbjørn

    Rubinmedlem
    Ble medlem
    26.03.2006
    Innlegg
    38.812
    Antall liker
    39.970
    Sted
    Vingulmǫrk
    Torget vurderinger
    2
    Det spiller ingen rolle så lenge GOP har bundet seg selv til masta på å støtte Trump hva han enn finner på. Det er tydelig at Mueller gikk ut fra instruksen om at en sittende president ikke kan siktes og gjorde derfor heller ingen påtalemessig vurdering av alle Trumps forsøk på å avspore etterforskningen. Trump har beviselig handlet stikk i strid med eden om "will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States", men Mueller ser det tydeligvis mer som en politisk vurdering for Kongressen enn en kriminalrettslig påtalesak. Dermed er heller ikke Barr's "frifinnelse" av Trump verdt papiret den ble skrevet på. Det er ikke det som står i rapporten. Det er ingen "blank frifinnelse" i rapporten, men en total fordømmelse som overlater til Kongressen å vurdere konsekvensene. Det er en lissepasning for impeachment proceedings.

    Derimot ble det gjort en vurdering av om samarbeidet mellom russisk etterretning og Trump-kampanjen nådde opp til kriminelt nivå av "coordination and conspiracy", og det gjorde det tydeligvis ikke. Det er bevist at russerne blandet seg inn, og det er bevist at Trump-kampanjen tok imot innblandingen med takk, men det er ikke bevist at noen i Trump-kampanjen koordinerte og konspirerte med russisk etterretning i en grad som holder til å reise tiltale i en rettssal. Det diskuteres i noen detalj i rapporten.

    Om russisk innblanding i valget og samarbeidet med Trump-kampanjen:
    https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/5955249/Report.pdf#page=17
    Section V of the report provides detailed explanations of the Office's charging decisions,
    which contain three main components.

    First, the Office determined that Russia's two principal interference operations in the 2016
    U.S. presidential election-the social media campaign and the hacking-and-dumping operations
    violated U.S. criminal law. Many of the individuals and entities involved in the social media
    campaign have been charged with participating in a conspiracy to defraud the United States by
    undermining through deceptive acts the work of federal agencies charged with regulating foreign
    influence in U.S. elections, as well as related counts of identity theft. See United States v. Internet
    Research Agency, et al., No. 18-cr-32 (D.D.C.). Separately, Russian intelligence officers who
    carried out the hacking into Democratic Party computers and the personal email accounts of
    individuals affiliated with the Clinton Campaign conspired to violate, among other federal laws,
    the federal computer-intrusion statute, and have been so charged.

    Second, while the investigation identified numerous links between individuals with ties to
    the Russian government and individuals associated with the Trump Campaign, the evidence was
    not sufficient to support criminal charges. Among other things, the evidence was not sufficient to
    charge any Campaign official as an unregistered agent of the Russian government or other Russian
    principal. And our evidence about the June 9, 2016 meeting and WikiLeaks's releases of hacked
    materials was not sufficient to charge a criminal campaign-finance violation. Further, the evidence
    was not sufficient to charge that any member of the Trump Campaign conspired with
    representatives of the Russian government to interfere in the 2016 election.

    Third, the investigation established that several individuals affiliated with the Trump
    Campaign lied to the Office, and to Congress, about their interactions with Russian-affiliated
    individuals and related matters. Those lies materially impaired the investigation of Russian
    election interference. The Office charged some of those lies as violations of the federal false
    statements statute. Former National Security Advisor Michael Flynn pleaded guilty to lying about
    his interactions with Russian Ambassador Kislyak during the transition period. George
    Papadopoulos, a foreign policy advisor during the campaign period, pleaded guilty to lying to
    investigators about, inter alia, the nature and timing of his interactions with Joseph Mifsud, the
    professor who told Papadopoulos that the Russians had dirt on candidate Clinton in the form of
    thousands of emails. Former Trump Organization attorney Michael Cohen pleaded guilty to
    making false claims to Congress about the Moscow project. [...]
    And in February 2019, the U.S. District Court of Columbia found that
    Manafort lied to the Office and the grand jury concerning his interactions and communications
    with Konstantin Kilimnik about Trump Campaign polling data and a peace plan for Ukraine .
    Om forsøkene på å avspore etterforskningen og påvirke vitner:
    https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/5955249/Report.pdf#page=215
    We did not make a traditional prosecution decision about these facts, but the evidence
    we obtained supports several general statements about the President's conduct.

    Several features of the conduct we investigated distinguish it from typical obstruction-of-
    justice cases. First, the investigation concerned the President, and some of his actions, such as
    firing the FB[ director, involved facially lawful acts within his Article [[ authority, which raises
    constitutional issues discussed below. At the same time, the President's position as the head of
    the Executive Branch provided him with unique and powerful means of influencing official
    proceedings, subordinate officers, and potential witnesses-all of which is relevant to a potential
    obstruction-of-justice analysis. Second, unlike cases in which a subject engages in obstruction of
    justice to cover up a crime, the evidence we obtained did not establish that the President was
    involved in an underlying crime related to Russian election interference. Although the obstruction
    statutes do not require proof of such a crime, the absence of that evidence affects the analysis of
    the President's intent and requires consideration of other possible motives for his conduct. Third,
    many of the President's acts directed at witnesses, including discouragement of cooperation with
    the government and suggestions of possible future pardons, took place in public view. That
    circumstance is unusual, but no principle of law excludes public acts from the reach of the
    obstruction laws. If the likely effect of public acts is to influence witnesses or alter their testimony,
    the harm to the justice system's integrity is the same.

    Although the series of events we investigated involved discrete acts, the overall pattern of
    the President's conduct towards the investigations can shed light on the nature of the President's
    acts and the inferences that can be drawn about his intent. In particular, the actions we investigated
    can be divided into two phases, reflecting a possible shift in the President's motives. The first
    phase covered the period from the President's first interactions with Corney through the President's
    firing of Corney. During that time, the President had been repeatedly told he was not personally
    under investigation. Soon after the firing of Corney and the appointment of the Special Counsel,
    however, the President became aware that his own conduct was being investigated in an
    obstruction-of-justice inquiry. At that point, the President engaged in a second phase of conduct,
    involving public attacks on the investigation, non-public efforts to control it, and efforts in both
    public and private to encourage witnesses not to cooperate with the investigation. Judgments about
    the nature of the President's motives during each phase would be informed by the totality of the
    evidence.
    https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/5955249/Report.pdf#page=220
    CONCLUSION
    Because we determined not to make a traditional prosecutorial judgment, we did not draw
    ultimate conclusions about the President's conduct.
    The evidence we obtained about the
    President's actions and intent presents difficult issues that would need to be resolved if we were
    making a traditional prosecutorial judgment. At the same time, if we had confidence after a
    thorough investigation of the facts that the President clearly did not commit obstruction of justice,
    we would so state. Based on the facts and the applicable legal standards, we are unable to reach
    that judgment. Accordingly, while this report does not conclude that the President committed a
    crime, it also does not exonerate him.
    Hvoretter Trump tweeter "No Collusion, No Obstruction, Complete and Total EXONERATION", selvsagt. Det går sikkert rett hjem hos Fox-publikumet. :rolleyes:
     
    Sist redigert:

    weld77

    Æresmedlem
    Ble medlem
    19.09.2014
    Innlegg
    22.038
    Antall liker
    14.603
    Sikkert bedre med litt kollekt enn å betale forsikringssummen.
    Stater er selvassurandør, noe som er helt normalt. Franske katedraler er eid av den franske stat siden 1905 eller noe slik. Den norske stat kjøper heller ikke forsikringer på noen av sine bygninger (eller fregatter, ref nylig hendelse). Det gir stort sett ingen mening for en stat å forsikre noe - den eier evig nok til at den selv får diversifisert risikoen og trenger ikke betale premie til noen eksterne aktører. Må bare anta at innimellom dukker det opp en ganske stor kostnad man må ta.

    For den franske stat er kostnadene ved å reparere katedralen en mindre del av budsjettet enn om oppvaskmaskinen din plutselig skulle ryke.Det franske statsbudsjettet (som riktig nok går med underskudd) er på ca 10.000 milliarder kroner pr. år.
     
    Sist redigert:

    Asbjørn

    Rubinmedlem
    Ble medlem
    26.03.2006
    Innlegg
    38.812
    Antall liker
    39.970
    Sted
    Vingulmǫrk
    Torget vurderinger
    2
    Lawfareblog har lest rapporten og kommer med sine betraktninger:
    https://www.lawfareblog.com/what-mueller-found-russia-and-obstruction-first-analysis
    In the end, there was clearly criminality here: criminality on the Russian side and criminality on the U.S. side in lying about interactions with Russian actors. And there was also activity that was plainly innocent. Between those two extremes, there was also a large quantity of engagement that was apparently not chargeably criminal but that did involve covert attempts to engage with a hostile foreign government for the benefit of Trump’s campaign and business.

    Whether one calls it collusion or calls it something else, it isn’t pretty.
    The report identifies and analyzes 10 episodes of concern in the obstruction investigation:

    conduct involving then-FBI Director Comey and Michael Flynn;
    the president’s reaction to the continuing Russia investigation;
    the president’s termination of Comey;
    the appointment of a special counsel and efforts to remove him;
    efforts to curtail the special counsel’s investigation;
    efforts to prevent public disclosure of evidence;
    further efforts to have the attorney general take control of the investigation;
    efforts to have White House Counsel Don McGahn deny that the president had ordered him to have the special counsel removed;
    conduct toward Flynn, Manafort, and a redacted individual (likely Roger Stone); and
    conduct involving Michael Cohen.

    Each episode includes a detailed set of factual findings and then analyzes how the evidence maps onto the criminal charge of obstruction, which requires (1) an obstructive act; (2) a nexus with an official proceeding; and (3) a corrupt intent. We have summarized all of the episodes and Mueller’s analysis of them under the obstruction statutes here.

    For present purposes, the critical point is that in six of these episodes, the special counsel’s office suggests that all of the elements of obstruction are satisfied: Trump’s conduct regarding the investigation into Michael Flynn, his firing of Comey, his efforts to remove Mueller and then to curtail Mueller’s investigation, his campaign to have Sessions take back control over the investigation and an order he gave to White House Counsel Don McGahn to both lie to the press about Trump’s past attempt to fire Mueller and create a false record “for our files.” In the cases of Comey’s firing, Trump’s effort to fire Mueller and then push McGahn to lie about it, and Trump’s effort to curtail the scope of the investigation, Mueller describes “substantial” evidence that Trump intended to obstruct justice. Only in one instance—concerning Trump’s effort to prevent the release of emails regarding the Trump Tower meeting—does the special counsel seem to feel that none of the three elements of the obstruction offense were met. It is not entirely clear how Mueller would apply his overarching factual considerations, discussed above, to the specific cases, but he does seem to be saying that the evidence of obstruction in a number of these incidents is strong.
    Political judgment is precisely what the circumstances require. Whether that judgment takes the form of an impeachment inquiry, an election campaign or both is a question with which the political system will wrestle over the coming months. But no longer can the country escape the question of the acceptability of the president’s conduct by saying that it is under investigation, that we will wait until the facts come out or that we won’t proceed on the basis of anonymous sources in news stories.

    Mueller has put on the record a remarkable litany of opprobrious behaviors by the president and the people around him. He has also determined for a variety of different reasons—legal, factual and prudential—not to proceed criminally against any more subjects. That leaves the judgment of those behaviors in other hands.
    Nixon ble tvunget til å gå av for mindre enn dette.
     
    Sist redigert:

    Asbjørn

    Rubinmedlem
    Ble medlem
    26.03.2006
    Innlegg
    38.812
    Antall liker
    39.970
    Sted
    Vingulmǫrk
    Torget vurderinger
    2
    Sant, men dilemmaet var at å slå hardt ned på den russiske innblandingen og blåse russernes støtte til Trump-kampanjen også ville ført til et ramaskrik på høyrefløyen med uoversiktlige konsekvenser. I ettertid er det ikke vanskelig å være enig i at offentligheten burde fått vite der og da at det pågikk en storstilt russisk påvirkningsaksjon til fordel for en av presidentkandidatene.

    Men det er mange som ikke kommer så godt ut av Mueller-rapporten. Spesielt den ene som unngår å bli siktet og avsatt bare fordi han selv er for inkompetent og maktesløs til å gjennomføre det han prøver på.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/outl...ried-obstruct-justice-he-was-too-inept-do-it/
    A central piece of the story is how little Trump is and was able to control. Despite his very best efforts, key members of his team refused or avoided what were clearly unlawful orders. In so doing, they took critically important, even if limited and self-protective, steps to protect the integrity of the investigation and thus the rule of law. It is the one bright side of what has emerged.

    But there are too many dark sides to count. We now have, thanks to the Mueller report, a detailed accounting of an attempted president-dictator. We have a president who sought to cover up and get all those around him to cover up campaign contacts with Russians; to cajole and then ultimately threaten witnesses into lying; to interfere with ongoing law enforcement investigations; to run the executive branch like an arm of the mafia.
    Mueller’s report tells a damning story of Trump’s efforts to use the power of the presidency to protect himself and his close family members. Had he been more effective, he would have shut down one of the most important inquiries into the threats posed to our democracy by a sophisticated foreign adversary. And then, maybe, he would have succeeded in getting himself impeached, or charged, or both.
     
    C

    Cyber

    Gjest
    Skjermbilde.jpg

    Er nok bare rent mel i posen når man går til søksmål for å skjule finansene sine... :)
     

    Crusty

    Hi-Fi freak
    Ble medlem
    09.09.2012
    Innlegg
    3.109
    Antall liker
    1.840
    Sted
    Horten
    Tucker om Beto:


    Shapiro: Beto is toast, Buttigieg stole all of his momentum

    Se her ja, Ben Shapiro. Nå mangler vi bare Stephan Molymeme og Weird Mike Thernovich, og parodien er komplett.

    Må igjen bare takke deg for at du avkler høyresidens idioti. Du gjør en viktig jobb her, Deffe. Kudos!
     
    Sist redigert:

    Fjernis 3.0

    Hi-Fi entusiast
    Ble medlem
    13.10.2018
    Innlegg
    395
    Antall liker
    18
    Nå er jeg tilbake etter påskeferie, jeg var sikkert savnet :)

    Skulle ikke Mueller etterforske russisk innblanding i valget, så tydeligvis så gjorde han ikke jobben sin og gikk kun etter Trump. Til og med New York Times som er et av gullbarna deres tviler nå.

    Last year, in a deposition in a lawsuit filed against Buzzfeed, Mr. Steele emphasized that his reports consisted of unverified intelligence. Asked whether he took into account that some claims might be Russian fabrications, he replied, “Yes.”

    F.B.I. agents considered whether Russia had polluted the stream of intelligence, but did not give it much credence, according to the former official.

    But that is an issue to which multiple inquiries are likely to return. There has been much chatter among intelligence experts that Mr. Steele’s Russian informants could have been pressured to feed him disinformation.

    Daniel Hoffman, a former C.I.A. officer who served in Moscow, said he had long suspected the dossier was contaminated by Russian fabrications. The goal, he said, would be to deepen American divisions and blur the line between truth and falsehood.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/19/...Z5G75anfd5jKIYo#click=https://t.co/nWKu3ZL8sY

    Trump kampanjen var uskyldig men er Clinton kampanjen det, eller FBI for den saks skyld som startet etterforskning av Trump kampanjen for noe som var kun fabrikkert av Steele.

    After Mr. Trump emerged as the likely nominee, Fusion kept working but turned to a new source of funding: the law firm representing the Clinton campaign, Perkins Coie. Noticing in May 2016 the Trump campaign’s unexpected affinity for Russia, Fusion hired Mr. Steele, a veteran of Britain’s MI6 intelligence agency, to dig deeper. Mr. Steele has told acquaintances that he did not know the ultimate client was the Clinton campaign.
     
    Sist redigert:

    Fjernis 3.0

    Hi-Fi entusiast
    Ble medlem
    13.10.2018
    Innlegg
    395
    Antall liker
    18
    Lawfareblog har lest rapporten og kommer med sine betraktninger:
    https://www.lawfareblog.com/what-mueller-found-russia-and-obstruction-first-analysis
    In the end, there was clearly criminality here: criminality on the Russian side and criminality on the U.S. side in lying about interactions with Russian actors. And there was also activity that was plainly innocent. Between those two extremes, there was also a large quantity of engagement that was apparently not chargeably criminal but that did involve covert attempts to engage with a hostile foreign government for the benefit of Trump’s campaign and business.

    Whether one calls it collusion or calls it something else, it isn’t pretty.
    The report identifies and analyzes 10 episodes of concern in the obstruction investigation:

    conduct involving then-FBI Director Comey and Michael Flynn;
    the president’s reaction to the continuing Russia investigation;
    the president’s termination of Comey;
    the appointment of a special counsel and efforts to remove him;
    efforts to curtail the special counsel’s investigation;
    efforts to prevent public disclosure of evidence;
    further efforts to have the attorney general take control of the investigation;
    efforts to have White House Counsel Don McGahn deny that the president had ordered him to have the special counsel removed;
    conduct toward Flynn, Manafort, and a redacted individual (likely Roger Stone); and
    conduct involving Michael Cohen.

    Each episode includes a detailed set of factual findings and then analyzes how the evidence maps onto the criminal charge of obstruction, which requires (1) an obstructive act; (2) a nexus with an official proceeding; and (3) a corrupt intent. We have summarized all of the episodes and Mueller’s analysis of them under the obstruction statutes here.

    For present purposes, the critical point is that in six of these episodes, the special counsel’s office suggests that all of the elements of obstruction are satisfied: Trump’s conduct regarding the investigation into Michael Flynn, his firing of Comey, his efforts to remove Mueller and then to curtail Mueller’s investigation, his campaign to have Sessions take back control over the investigation and an order he gave to White House Counsel Don McGahn to both lie to the press about Trump’s past attempt to fire Mueller and create a false record “for our files.” In the cases of Comey’s firing, Trump’s effort to fire Mueller and then push McGahn to lie about it, and Trump’s effort to curtail the scope of the investigation, Mueller describes “substantial” evidence that Trump intended to obstruct justice. Only in one instance—concerning Trump’s effort to prevent the release of emails regarding the Trump Tower meeting—does the special counsel seem to feel that none of the three elements of the obstruction offense were met. It is not entirely clear how Mueller would apply his overarching factual considerations, discussed above, to the specific cases, but he does seem to be saying that the evidence of obstruction in a number of these incidents is strong.
    Political judgment is precisely what the circumstances require. Whether that judgment takes the form of an impeachment inquiry, an election campaign or both is a question with which the political system will wrestle over the coming months. But no longer can the country escape the question of the acceptability of the president’s conduct by saying that it is under investigation, that we will wait until the facts come out or that we won’t proceed on the basis of anonymous sources in news stories.

    Mueller has put on the record a remarkable litany of opprobrious behaviors by the president and the people around him. He has also determined for a variety of different reasons—legal, factual and prudential—not to proceed criminally against any more subjects. That leaves the judgment of those behaviors in other hands.
    Nixon ble tvunget til å gå av for mindre enn dette.
    Det kan ikke sammenlignes det Nixon gjorde og det som sies at Trump har sagt, ikke gjort men sagt.
     

    Roald

    Hi-Fi freak
    Ble medlem
    25.06.2005
    Innlegg
    5.716
    Antall liker
    3.015
    Torget vurderinger
    1
    Muligens blir det litt å fundere på fremover for amerikanernes versjon av GHB og JGS

     

    defacto

    Hi-Fi freak
    Ble medlem
    04.05.2016
    Innlegg
    5.713
    Antall liker
    3.152
    Sted
    Liten by
    Det virker på meg som flere her inne tror at Mueller rapporten frikjenner Trump. Jeg skulle likt å vite hva det er som får de til å tro det?
    Og hva tror de hadde skjedd med Trump, dersom han ikke var president?
     
    • Liker
    Reaksjoner: MML

    Disqutabel

    Æresmedlem
    Ble medlem
    28.09.2016
    Innlegg
    11.657
    Antall liker
    11.667
    Er dette alt som er sladdet av 400 sider? Det betyr i så fall at 6% av sidene har en eller annen form av sladding, men ettersom noen av dem er lite påvirket av sladdingen, vil det med en lett visuell beregning si at under 3% av hele publikasjonen er sladdet for innsyn. Det høres helt rimelig ut basert på motivasjonen om nasjonale sikkerhetsbehov.
    En hver som har vært med på å levere sladdede tilbud (åpent for innsyn for konkurrerende leverandører) i forbindelse med offentlige anbud, vil ikke finne noe særskilt med en slik praksis.
     
    Sist redigert:

    Disqutabel

    Æresmedlem
    Ble medlem
    28.09.2016
    Innlegg
    11.657
    Antall liker
    11.667
    Nå er jeg tilbake etter påskeferie, jeg var sikkert savnet :)

    Skulle ikke Mueller etterforske russisk innblanding i valget, så tydeligvis så gjorde han ikke jobben sin og gikk kun etter Trump. Til og med New York Times som er et av gullbarna deres tviler nå.

    Last year, in a deposition in a lawsuit filed against Buzzfeed, Mr. Steele emphasized that his reports consisted of unverified intelligence. Asked whether he took into account that some claims might be Russian fabrications, he replied, “Yes.”

    F.B.I. agents considered whether Russia had polluted the stream of intelligence, but did not give it much credence, according to the former official.

    But that is an issue to which multiple inquiries are likely to return. There has been much chatter among intelligence experts that Mr. Steele’s Russian informants could have been pressured to feed him disinformation.

    Daniel Hoffman, a former C.I.A. officer who served in Moscow, said he had long suspected the dossier was contaminated by Russian fabrications. The goal, he said, would be to deepen American divisions and blur the line between truth and falsehood.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/19/...Z5G75anfd5jKIYo#click=https://t.co/nWKu3ZL8sY

    Trump kampanjen var uskyldig men er Clinton kampanjen det, eller FBI for den saks skyld som startet etterforskning av Trump kampanjen for noe som var kun fabrikkert av Steele.

    After Mr. Trump emerged as the likely nominee, Fusion kept working but turned to a new source of funding: the law firm representing the Clinton campaign, Perkins Coie. Noticing in May 2016 the Trump campaign’s unexpected affinity for Russia, Fusion hired Mr. Steele, a veteran of Britain’s MI6 intelligence agency, to dig deeper. Mr. Steele has told acquaintances that he did not know the ultimate client was the Clinton campaign.
    Men... det der er selvsagt ikke sant noe av det. Fake News Media, vet du. MSM. Propaganda. Løgner. Ikke noe man kan stole på. Eller husker jeg feil?
     

    Hardingfele

    Æresmedlem
    Ble medlem
    25.10.2014
    Innlegg
    24.170
    Antall liker
    18.468
    Torget vurderinger
    2
    Er dette alt som er sladdet av 400 sider? Det betyr i så fall at 6% av sidene har en eller annen form av sladding, men ettersom noen av dem er lite påvirket av sladdingen, vil det med en lett visuell beregning si at under 3% av hele publikasjonen er sladdet for innsyn. Det høres helt rimelig ut basert på motivasjonen om nasjonale sikkerhetsbehov.
    En hver som har vært med på å levere sladdede tilbud (åpent for innsyn for konkurrerende leverandører) i forbindelse med offentlige anbud, vil ikke finne noe særskilt med en slik praksis.
    Neida, dette er et lite utdrag sladding som passet til illustrasjonen. 1/3 av 400 sider er "redacted".
     

    Disqutabel

    Æresmedlem
    Ble medlem
    28.09.2016
    Innlegg
    11.657
    Antall liker
    11.667
    Er dette alt som er sladdet av 400 sider? Det betyr i så fall at 6% av sidene har en eller annen form av sladding, men ettersom noen av dem er lite påvirket av sladdingen, vil det med en lett visuell beregning si at under 3% av hele publikasjonen er sladdet for innsyn. Det høres helt rimelig ut basert på motivasjonen om nasjonale sikkerhetsbehov.
    En hver som har vært med på å levere sladdede tilbud (åpent for innsyn for konkurrerende leverandører) i forbindelse med offentlige anbud, vil ikke finne noe særskilt med en slik praksis.
    Neida, dette er et lite utdrag sladding som passet til illustrasjonen. 1/3 av 400 sider er "redacted".
    Det er mer substansielt, ja.
     
    Status
    Stengt for ytterligere svar.
  • Laster inn…

Diskusjonstråd Se tråd i gallerivisning

  • Laster inn…
Topp Bunn