Her er det et grundig svar på mine spørsmål og tanker rundt M2. Og nå som vi bor oss inn her så her jeg usikker på om M2 blir praktisk/rikitg lydmessig valg i stue-reolen her
(PS! VTX er det mindre 30 cm 1,5» hornet til JBL med vesentlig smalere spredning, det som jeg har på lur)
The M2 system is probably among the most neutral sounding system on the planet. I heard them and Everest II last week in NYC and both are spectacular. For us DYI’ers the question is if we want to try to copy them or build something according our own thoughts and/or use drivers we already have.
I typically go for the latter, knowing that with my limited measuring capabilities and time restrictions I will never get to the “M2 package” level. However by using good components and careful design I can get reasonable/acceptable close and be happy that it was my design. But an M2 it will never be.
Regarding M2 waveguide it depends on what you aim for.
If you are aiming to make a true M2 clone with electronics and dsp you are better off making it as close to the original M2 as possible, as “M2” is a system and not “a speaker”. It’s a complex mix.
If cabinet size is no restriction and you have a well behaved room (large and/or well dampened) the M2 horn may have an edge due to the way it deals with indirect sound. -Even in a different cabinet and a different woofer.
If you have a “normal” room with some hard walls and/or limited size the more direct sound from the VTX may be an advantage.
Sound wise I would argue that the
VTX has a similar sound as the M2. M2 uses indirect sound more to get a very even curve in listening position over a large area. If you can accept a smaller sweet spot and/or have hard walls the smaller sweet spot of the VTX may be an advantage.
M2 uses the D2 driver and if you, like me, go for a different driver (read 4”) then you will have to determine your own EQ and XO points. Not very difficult but more work. And easier with VTX than M2.
I built 2 pairs of VTX F12 clones (2206/2450SL) and they sound fantastic. I did build a M2 “wannabe” with a 475Nd and LE1400H with the full BSS DSP support and in a large room they sound very neutral. Albeit LE1400H is not as good as the 2216Nd, but I did have them at hand. DSP can bring you closer, but probably not all the way.
In my HT (5.2) I use 2451Be’s with 045Ti’s above and there I currently run VTX horns. I do have a full M2 horn set sitting idle in the shop but haven’t really found energy to build the new ones as the VTX sounds so good. I run the system off a BSS BLU800 dsp.
I will probably build a M2 based 5.2 set this winter (or next...) but more because I have the pieces than sheer need. I could live happy with the VTX system.
Worth noting is that I run
2451Be’s that roll off pretty quickly after 12-14k and will hence use 045ti’s above, as today with the VTX horns. It is
probably not needed but to my ears the sound is more “light” with them than without them. Even at very high XO points, > 15kHz. It should not be and maybe it is just placebo, but that is what I hear.
If did not have the Be’s in my possession I would run coated SL dia’s (2450SL or 475Nd) and be done. No 045’s, just as I do in my 2-way “Compact Monitor”. There is no need for 045’s with the 475Nd diaphragms in my opinion. Probably the same thing with D2 as JBL made the 2347 2-way. A 2-way system is much easier to get “integrated” than a 3-way and that is worth giving some thought.
Be’s sounds slightly better in the mid’s and I prefer the 3-way system with them as they fall off quicker.
Two of my friends have built HT’s recently and one is running M2’s and the other VTX. Both with 476Nd’s and they both sound very good indeed.
From my point of view and for me not going for making exact M2 clones I would argue that it is not worth to go for M2 horns.
The VTX horns behave very well and are easier to equalize.
They do not go down to 800Hz as the M2 and should be XO’d at 1-1400kHz with a 24LR slope. This may limit the number of woofers that can go this high but for sure many of the fine new JBL 12” ad 15” would do this without any problem.
Hello, It seems like JBL keep producing new waveguides. There is some really good information here on the PT-F95HF and even some good measurements. Thank you. Now, that guide is from about 2002 and maybe there are newer and better horns. Among others there is a guide in the newer STX825...
www.audioheritage.org
men med så mange diskanter så øker kapasiteten vanvittig og da tåler den mye lavere deling. Her snakker vi om en D3 økning på 5 dB ish ved å dra ned delingen fra 1550 Hz (Grimm Audio som etter sigende kan spille svært høyt og rent) til f eks 950 Hz rett over fs men da med 18 diskanter som øker følsomheten med 12 dB hvis jeg har regner riktig? Også kommer det evt shading med spoler nedover? Men med erfaring fra kompresjonsdrivere så går det fint å jobbe seg ned mot fs bare det er kapasitet nok.
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